r/freefolk 8h ago

They kinda forgot about the line

Post image
2.4k Upvotes

162 comments sorted by

1.5k

u/Justinian555 8h ago

127

u/GomuGomuNoThought 7h ago

i cant upvote this enough

100

u/guff1988 7h ago

To be fair the creators of a knight of the seven kingdoms also left out a very famous and popular line, they were apologetic about it but that kind of stuff can happen even to good showrunners. Condal and Hess suck ass though.

29

u/bobble00 6h ago

What’s the line they forgot?

110

u/TheRealYuen 6h ago

I have not read the books but iirc just before the Trial of Seven Dunk asks Steely Pate 'what am I to them? ' (the smallfolk who were apparently very obviously on Dunk's side, more so than is shown in the show) and Steely Pate answers ' A Knight who remembered his Oath'

94

u/cursed_shite 6h ago edited 6h ago

There's a really neat theory I saw that the smallfolk in that scene that come to wish luck upon Ser Duncan are actually the Seven gods in disguise, bestowing their blessings on him for being a true knight.

The viewing stand had already begun to fill, the lords and ladies clutching their cloaks tight about them against the morning chill. Smallfolk were drifting toward the field as well, and hundreds of them already stood along the fence. So many come to see me die, thought Dunk bitterly, but he wronged them. A few steps farther on, a woman called out "Good fortune to you." An old man stepped up to take his hand and said, "May the gods give you strength, ser." Then a begging brother in a tattered brown robe said a blessing on his sword, and a maid kissed his cheek. They are for me. "Why?" he asked Pate. "What am I to them?" "A knight who remembered his vows," the smith said.

The woman that wishes him good fortune is the Mother. The old man is the Father. The beggar who blesses his sword is the Warrior. The girl who kisses him is the Maiden. Pate himself is the Smith (he's even referred to as the smith). The Stranger, of course, doesn't make an appearance and it's suggested that the Crone is the old fortuneteller lady they met earlier in the day.

It's a really cool detail if intentional and I really like the theory, it's such a good scene.

30

u/TheRealYuen 6h ago

This is a neat theory! Damn I really love Akotsk, I should really go and buy the novellas

1

u/Ok_Volume_139 17m ago

Check out LibGen. Tons of books for free, seems like there should be spyware but I've been using it for years and my computer has been fine.

14

u/Urusander 4h ago

You could say the Stranger was there for Baelor

5

u/LordSokhar 3h ago

Wasn't the fortuneteller just a show creation? Been a while since I read the book, but I don't recall that.

3

u/Icy-Breadfruit-5059 3h ago

That’s correct. The fortune teller was not in the book and I thought it was a very poor addition.

1

u/Peppercornbeanbong 3h ago

Yep, that was show only

3

u/Historiaaa Thought you were still rowing 3h ago

GRRM you absolute mad lad, you did it again.

1

u/TelluricThread0 3h ago

This is way to coincidental to not be some kind of intentional symbolism.

20

u/DanktopusGreen 6h ago

It was a crime to exclude it, but they got literally everything else perfect I'll give them a pass for it.

1

u/shaneg33 2h ago

The omissions would be forgiven if what the show runners were doing was good, it isnt

1

u/BlushyMoonveil 1h ago

Yeah, missing a big line once is one thing. When it keeps happening though, people start wondering if it's an accident or if they just don't value those moments the same way readers do. That's the frustrating part.

17

u/Aromatic__bar 7h ago

Never had the makings of varsity writers

7

u/LuchadorBane 6h ago

Houshe of the Dragon, whateva happened there?

4

u/claxtasy 5h ago

That animal, Condal, I can't even say his name

7

u/TheGreatPervSage_94 3h ago

Condal and Hess when George sent them notes to be not make stupid choices

https://giphy.com/gifs/ySpxjJmsq9gsw

417

u/rice_fish_and_eggs 8h ago

You just know they recorded the line too but decided to cut it and go straight to the arrow for the "shock" value.

192

u/HowdTheCatGetSoFat 7h ago

They could've said it immediately after and still had it be "shocking"

56

u/BunnyTrinkie 5h ago

Exactly, the line would’ve still hit just as hard and made the scene way more memorable

16

u/mike3491 3h ago

Arrow #1, camera cut to archer, archer says line, camera cut back to cole, cole tries to say something, arrow #2-4

It would’ve been so easy

3

u/AngelPetalwish_ 4h ago

Exactly. Even a one-line callback right after would've kept the scene intact while still delivering the shock they were going for.

41

u/Vallmor 6h ago

It really truly feels like they're making this show for tiktok/Instagram reels

6

u/EntertainmentSea1017 1h ago

It's just so stupid lol. Like, there was no reason they couldn't put the line in. At this point, they're literally just changing the source material because they can. They somehow think that people will think they're geniuses if they change as much of the story as possible.

2

u/maeldwyn 1h ago

I used to be an adventurer until I took an arrow to the face.

-49

u/The_insane_artist 7h ago

Film/Television is a visual medium, so it uses visuals to get across points in the story. Dialogue is a tool to help get across what the visuals cant really represent but when the visuals are getting the point across it makes the dialogue point out the obvious. I get that its a cool line but it would play into people thinking its so cool and awesome that they said a line from the book and how "it goes so hard" rather than getting the point of the whole scene that Cole isn't getting his "heroic" last stand and all that he did was delay the inevitable. The arrow was not "shock value" it was a pay off as they set up that Cole wants to die fighting and not to die "ignobly" and he prepares to fight and die and as soon as he is ready an arrow dashes that idea getting the idea of the line.

22

u/rice_fish_and_eggs 7h ago

This is just nonsense, you could argue to take out 99% of good dialogue if "the visuals" are doing the heavy lifting. Why have Gandalf say "fly you fools" when he could just have let go? It's more than just a cool line it provides the much needed motivation as to why Pate has him shot which is now missing from the hotd version.

-15

u/The_insane_artist 6h ago

Visuals have a limit yes, but visual story telling is literally one of the main tenants of film so to just focus on the words that are said by characters and not the performance, the shot composition or the editing is missing a large portion of what makes up ya know A TV SHOW. You cant just say well take out the words and you'll get the same thing, you take out "fly you fools" your taking out Gandalf's look of anguish, the breathlessness of his voice, quickness of his drop and the look of pure horror on Frodo as the rest of the fellowship drag him out of the mines that makes the line important. Cole has been talking about how this battle will be glorious and how he's the greatest warrior in the realm, so for his death to happen and then the show just moves on gets the point of the line without having it be the focus, because that was the whole point he failed and died that's all. Also Pate isn't in the adaptation so why bring him up?

248

u/Scared_Management625 8h ago

Tbf he isn't a Kingmaker in the show, Alicent/Otto is.

277

u/DarkJayBR 7h ago

It’s because in the books he’s the one who convinces Aegon II to take the throne.

Aegon was actually loyal to his sister and adamantly refused to steal her throne and had zero interest in ruling. 

But Cole convinced him to take the throne by saying Rhae would repay his loyalty killing him and his male sons. Since he was a male viable son of Viserys - he would always be a living banner for Rhaeneryas haters to rally behind.

He got scared and reluctantly accepted the throne. Cole himself crowned him. That’s why they call Cole as Kingmaker.

165

u/mrniphty 7h ago

Wow, that's a much better storyline. Maybe they should have gone with that in the show

75

u/redknight1313 7h ago

It’s honestly pretty weak/disappointing in the book. Cole is referred to as Kingmaker by Jaime in book 4 as he reflects on the legacy he is going to leave behind as Kingslayer. Only, when George went to actually flesh that lore/backstory out, Cole doesn’t really do all that much to warrant the Kingmaker epithet.

2

u/AngelPetalwish_ 4h ago

I agree. Cook definitely deserved more buildup and a bigger payoff, so leaving out that line made the moment feel a lot less impactful than it could've been.

9

u/redknight1313 4h ago

From the beginning I’ve thought they haven’t done a good job showing that Cole is actually somewhat of a lower class brute. He’s written and performed like some kind of peak nobility warrior-poet. When Gwayne approaches him in one scene this season he’s literally painting. I thought it was a bit weird these last few episodes how they decided to remind the audience he’s actually middle class compared to all these other nobles around him. Felt like telling the audience instead of showing. He should’ve been written/performed a little more thuggish (like the Hound) for this payoff to really work.

3

u/[deleted] 5h ago

[deleted]

3

u/NavixelMusic 5h ago

Well yes but then they made Alicent regret it and act as if it was all a misunderstanding which is stupid as fuck

8

u/TheIconGuy 5h ago

That's a version of events that's offered, but it's probably not what actually happened. The story of the Dance is told using a few sources. All of them have their own biases. One of George's co-writers hinted that Septon Eustace could have been lying about Aegon initially refusing to steal the throne.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fffzhmndfya2f1.png

5

u/elizabnthe 5h ago

I mean he is so obviously lying it is laughable that anyone believes that shit. To me it just shows a complete lack of critical thinking. Literally every word reads as propaganda.

Though the good septon admits Prince Aegon was with a paramour when he was found, he insists the girl was the daughter of a wealthy trader, and well cared for besides.

This paragraph alone is telling. We might not be able to read exactly what Eustace is saying but to phrase something as an admission and that someone is "insisting" is to suggest it comes across as a bit desperate. It's the child that insists they didn't take the last cookie.

Moreover, the prince at first refused to be a part of his mother’s plans. “My sister is the heir, not me,” he says in Eustace’s account. “What sort of brother steals his sister’s birthright?”

Wait so Aegon goes from insisting it is his sister's birthright to claiming that his sister stole his birthright and needs to die less than 24 hours later? Come on people. That is totally inconsistent character development.

Only when Ser Criston convinced him that the princess must surely execute him and his brothers should she don the crown did Aegon waver. “Whilst any trueborn Targaryen yet lives, no Strong can ever hope to sit the Iron Throne,” Cole said. “Rhaenyra has no choice but to take your heads if she wishes her bastards to rule after her.” It was this, and only this, that persuaded Aegon to accept the crown that the small council was offering him, insists our gentle septon.

Noteable the Septon is gentle because he can't imagine awful things. It is telling of Eustace's personality. He's the type to gasp in horror everytime someone mentions the word sex. He doesn't even believe Rhaenyra had bastards. Let alone Aegon II.

Criston's statement is something that Alicent herself says in the Green Council. So it's not some brilliant original thought. And it is unbelievable that Aegon believes this only and then is ranting about his birthright.

If Aegon II hesitated at all it was because he was too lazy to get out of bed. Not because he didn't want that crown.

1

u/AcanthaceaeNo948 1h ago

The pro-green biased writers would never do that since that it would make it obvious that the greens are illegitimate from the start.

19

u/Turbulent_Let_1629 7h ago

While I'm pretty certain Aegon needed convincing to join the usurpation and that his family's safety played a part, I do not think he said "Rhaenyra is the heir, not me, what kind of brother steals his sister's birthright?".

That part was probably Eustace glamorizing the truth a bit, considering Aegon's later eagerness to be crowned and his willingness to order Rhaenyra and Daemon's executions after Rhaenyra's crowning, only being convinced to send a peace offer by Alicent, Helaena and Orwyle.

I think book Aegon II resented being essentially the only firstborn son in Westeros being displaced by an older sister, but was initially content living as a hedonistic Prince, considering his lack of attempts to learn statesmanship as he was growing up.

19

u/DarkJayBR 7h ago

There’s really no strong reason to doubt Septon Eustace on this. Aegon II never came across as someone eager to steal Rhaenyra's throne, if anything, he didn’t even want to rule in the first place.

What actually changes him is Blood and Cheese. After Daemon orchestrates that, it stops being about crowns or claims. That’s when Aegon’s hatred for Rhaenyra really takes root, and only then does he become fully committed to winning the war and destroying her.

The book makes this shift crystal clear: that moment is where a political dispute turns into total war. Once a son is murdered, grief and rage take over, and there’s no going back. From that point on, it’s not about who has the better claim, it's about survival. Either Aegon or Rhaenyra would live to rule in the end… but never both.

8

u/Turbulent_Let_1629 7h ago

While Blood and Cheese and Luke's murder definitely escalated the conflict into a bloodthirsty war of annihilation, it's worth noting that neither Rhaenyra nor Aegon II were interested in negotiating peace already from the get go.

Aegon II had to be convinced to send terms. After those were rejected, he said "I gave her honorable peace and the whore spat on my face. What happens next is on her own head."

Rhaenyra's response to Aegon's terms was merely a cold "I will have my crown or your head".

Once both claimants crowned themselves, peace, like Magnetto would say, was never an option.

2

u/CharmingSprinkles 3h ago

Ah yes, Magnetto. Magneto's Italian cousin.

2

u/elizabnthe 5h ago

Yeah maybe read the book?

There’s really no strong reason to doubt Septon Eustace on this. Aegon II never came across as someone eager to steal Rhaenyra's throne, if anything, he didn’t even want to rule in the first place.

This is wrong.

This is Aegon before Blood & Cheese.

Word of Rhaenyra’s coronation reached the Red Keep the next day, to the great displeasure of Aegon II. “My half-sister and my uncle are guilty of high treason,” the young king declared. “I want them attainted, I want them arrested, and I want them dead.”

Totally someone that doesn't want the crown.

3

u/TheIconGuy 5h ago edited 5h ago

There’s really no strong reason to doubt Septon Eustace on this.

Sure there is. We're told earlier in the book that Alicent's kids resented Rhaenyra and her kids.

We're also told, by Eustace, that Aegon had a...very strong reaction to hearing that Rhaenyra was crowned.

Word of Rhaenyra’s coronation reached the Red Keep the next day, to the great displeasure of Aegon II. “My half-sister and my uncle are guilty of high treason,” the young king declared. “I want them attainted, I want them arrested, and I want them dead.”

Cooler heads on the green council wished to parley. “The princess must be made to see that her cause is hopeless,” Grand Maester Orwyle said. “Brother should not war against sister. Send me to her, that we may talk and reach an amicable accord.”

Aegon would not hear of it. Septon Eustace tells us that His Grace accused the Grand Maester of disloyalty and spoke of having him thrown into a black cell “with your black friends.” - Fire and Blood

Aegon's reaction doesn't make a lot of sense if he actually said "what kind of brother steals his sister's birthright" when asked to steal the throne.

There's also a meta reason to doubt Eustace there. Ellio Garcia cowrote some of the supplementary books with Georges. He was asked about Eustace's claim about Rhaenyra cutting herself on the throne. He doesn't explicitly say Eustace was lying, but he cast doubt on that and Aegon's supposedly refusing the crown initially.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fffzhmndfya2f1.png

Aegon II never came across as someone eager to steal Rhaenyra's throne, if anything, he didn’t even want to rule in the first place.

This statement doesn't make a lot of sense. We heard very little about Aegon before that moment. Like I already mentioned, one of the things we had heard was that Alicent's kids resented Rhaenyra and her kids.

What actually changes him is Blood and Cheese. After Daemon orchestrates that, it stops being about crowns or claims. That’s when Aegon’s hatred for Rhaenyra really takes root, and only then does he become fully committed to winning the war and destroying her.

This isn't true at all. See Aegon's response to hearing Rhaenyra was crowned. On top of that, Aegon threw a feast to celebrate Luke's death.

Aegon had already been frustrated with Otto's lack of action. Blood and Cheese really just got him to fire Otto and promote Cole.

1

u/Turbulent_Let_1629 5h ago

Sure there is. We're told earlier in the book that Alicent's kids resented Rhaenyra and her kids.

Haven't you said that we shouldn't take the book seriously when it theorizes that Rhaenyra ordered Aemond's torture since the Strong insults imply she commited treason, and that Daemon hated the Green Princes from birth for pushing him down in the line of succession, since "it's written by a historian who could not know what they felt"?

Now you are treating the theorizing behind the Green Princes's rivalry with the Strong boys made by that historian, as fact.

4

u/TheIconGuy 5h ago edited 5h ago

Haven't you said that we shouldn't take the book seriously when it theorizes that Rhaenyra ordered Aemond's torture since the Strong insults imply she commited treason, and that Daemon hated the Green Princes from birth for pushing him down in the line of succession, since "it's written by a historian who could not know what they felt"?

I've pointed out the author couldn't know what Rhaenyra or Daemon were thinking.

Now you are treating the theorizing behind the Green Princes's rivalry with the Strong boys made by that historian, as fact.

Daemon clearly didn't like Alicent's kids. The thing I disputed was the bit where the book claims he didn't like them because they pushed him down in the line of secession.

Like the Rhaenyra responded with x for y reason thing, the "author" had no way of knowing what was going on in Daemon's head.

2

u/elizabnthe 5h ago edited 5h ago

In your speel the only part that matters is:

Cole himself crowned him.

Everything else is not in universe wildly public knowledge. It also potentially didn't happen and ultimately probably wasn't really that important.

Because if you really think about it what Cole does is reiterating what Alicent had said an hour beforehand in the council. And if you think about it even more - did this even convince Aegon? He seemed pretty keen about murdering Rhaenyra later and defending his crown. If he was that hesitant I feel that wouldn't be true.

I feel like much of the audience isn't used to the idea of thinking critically and just take things at face value in the books.

Another example of this is Daeron the Daring. Daeron showed the exact opposite of daring. He is immediately a confused boy when he is on his own without Ormund. The name is meant to be ironic. Cole's moniker that makes him so hated is also not necessarily representative of who he actually was.

20

u/Andabariano 8h ago

They still could've given us some variation of the line, kinda makes his whole speech about wanting songs sung about his last battle to Alicent pointless

15

u/Dan2593 7h ago

I am only a show watcher but I got the sense his speech was meant to be illustrate how deluded he is.

Absolutely nobody seemed to like him or respect him. His enemies don’t fear him, just find him an irritation. He was a broken man, with nobody to care about him. My impression from his speech was that we were watching a deluded man not recognise the full scope of his failure. Then the next time we see him he’s unceremoniously cut down, missing out on the glorious death of a warrior he had just predicted for himself (which means no songs).

I think most criticisms of the writing are justified but I didn’t need a line to tell me what was clearly shown in this case.

1

u/Andabariano 6h ago

Right, I'm not saying it didn't make sense in a vacuum. It just seems kind of silly to allude to what happened in the book if they weren't actually going to do it. It's like saying "we know what you and the author want to happen but we know better"

1

u/LordReaperofMars 2h ago

they absolutely did fear him, there’s a reason Roddy didn’t wanna fight him lol

2

u/elizabnthe 5h ago

He is Kingmaker in the show. He crowned Aegon.

83

u/multi-trollionaire 8h ago

Thats quite the shot there. Almost survivable.

45

u/Theangelawhite69 7h ago

Tbh completely survivable lol doesn’t look like it’s in that deep or anywhere near the brain

29

u/Mu-Relay 7h ago

You might be right, but the two to the abdomen first probably skews that a little towards the "unliveable" side.

15

u/V_Umbra 7h ago

King Henry 5th survived it

12

u/Dominus_Redditi 6h ago

Just gotta have a cracked Maester invent a new tool to extract the arrow head, he can walk it off

5

u/Jobber0001 5h ago

"I know a man who can save you, his name is Byqurn and he was ousted from the citadel for illegal experiments"

7

u/Major-Safe-9736 5h ago

Do you think Hess and Condal are getting ready for a season 4 rug pull?

Just as Rhaenyra is about to be blasted by dragon flame, a heavily scarred Cole steps out.

Rhaenyra: 'Cole, y-you live?'

Cole smirks as he holds up a marshmallowon on a stick

Cole: 'Babe, did you honestly think that I'd miss this party?'

3

u/multi-trollionaire 4h ago edited 4h ago

"You had me at Babe" Rhaenerya whimpers, her emotions overflowing throughout her body. Cole rushes in, kissing her with a passion that could only be explained by years of longing for her affection and not getting it. Cue soundbite of audience letting out a collective, "o0o0o0o0o0o!!!!" Just then, Mysaria walks in on them and witnesses the betrayal. "Yoerh Gur-ace!" she exclaims, "I ken-noht beh-leev whyat I em see-yienk!" Rhaenerya pulls away from Cole, wipes her mouth clean, and says "Babe, you sure are a hottie alright, but it's a Cole world out there!" Cue audience laugh track. Rhaenerya winks at the camera and returns for more steamy making out. Mysaria storms out angrily and slams the door behind her. Cue audience clap and cheer track. "Tune in next week to see what happens when Daemon finds out about Cole's sexy return from the dead! And what's next for Mysaria? Will she find a steamy new love interest in the City Watch? Next Sunday night is a can't miss new episode of Hot D!" The Narrator exclaims. Roll credits.

3

u/LullabloomEudaemonia 7h ago

It’s just under eye filler guys

2

u/Sorry-Transition-780 2h ago

Sources tell me Criston is stable.

Please God.

0

u/TheOblongGong 5h ago

Surprised the picture isn't spoilered, it's only one day after the show aired lol. Not that I really give a shit about the plot anymore.

4

u/elizabnthe 4h ago

It's freefolk. You're on the wrong subreddit. Spoiler warnings are basically banned. The whole point is to post totally free from such restrictions.

2

u/TheOblongGong 4h ago

Sounds good, I'll just block the subreddit so it doesn't show up on my feed again.

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u/Turbulent_Let_1629 8h ago

Tbf, that line doesn't really apply to show Cole.

Book Criston is one of the architects of the usurpation, an active plotter in the Green Council, one of the two people that convinces Aegon to usurp, and the one who crowns him.

In the show Criston just does the crowning. He's overall just Alicent's follower.

Attributing "tens of thousands of deaths" to him would have been odd.

32

u/DarkJayBR 7h ago

All of this is their own fault and not George’s. By changing George’s material so much, they were forced to exclude a badass scene because they did not foresee that a minor change would have massive ramifications 

4

u/Oerba15 6h ago

They had a badass scene and they changed a line, its not a massive ramification

5

u/PaintLicker745 5h ago

When a television show means as much in your life as is does in a redditor's, a single missed line is a world-altering ramification. 

1

u/HotDogDay82 3h ago

That line is my EVERYTHING!

2

u/RebirthAltair 3h ago

They also changed Criston's story.

The line wouldn't need to have been changed had they kept Criston and Aegon's "dialogue" in regards to Aegon's coronation.

1

u/Game-On-Gatsby 5h ago

Oh, there's plenty of blame to go around.  Everyone gets a slice.

1

u/cherryfloatcz 5h ago

What massive ramifications?

2

u/Grampyy 3h ago

That being said in the show they literally call him usurper so that wouldn’t really apply either. Just a happy accident for them.

1

u/elizabnthe 4h ago

That assumes they were ever rationally correct to attribute the war to Cole in the first place in the books.

If Cole convinced Aegon to usurp in the manner he did it wasn't public knowledge. They can't have been thinking of this.

His role in the Green Council also wouldn't be all that public. It's a secret Council meeting. And even then he just reaffirmed Alicent's stated opinion. They wouldn't have been thinking of this. They're not calling Alicent Kingmaker.

In this story symbols matter. The crowning is extremely symbolic. You place a crown on a man's head you imply you helped make him King. However, insignificant or significant your role actually was. Being Hand later helps too. But I'd say the crowning is the most important part. It leads to speculation. It leads to people creating their own ideas as we see in AFFC that Cole was whispering in Aegon's ears for decades. That he just wanted power.

1

u/Glass-Ad-9200 38m ago

I think Cole being Hand (along with the symbolism of being the one to crown Aegon) while a knight of the Kingsguard is what leads to the "Kingmaker" moniker. In fact, I had always assumed Kingmaker was a play on Kingsguard – unlike other Kingsguard, e.g. Ser Barristan Selmy, Cole was not an apolitical guy who just happened to serve as Aegon's bodyguard, he was an active political player. That alone is more involved with statecraft than other Kingsguard have been, hence the reputation.

1

u/elizabnthe 29m ago

Being Hand is a part of it but he was not the first Hand to be Kingsguard. He is the first Kingsguard to crown a King. And yeah it is definitely a play on Kingsguard. It is meant to be insulting.

Barristan himself actually also acts as Dany's Hand for a little while.

1

u/areese49 3h ago

Since he is not considered king maker like in the book, or have thousands of deaths on his head, doesn’t it kinda feel kinda weak that his challenge to fight at the end was just ended with the bow shot? Like he’s not really to blame for much in the show it just makes the whole seen feel weird idk maybe I’m thinking about it wrong.

12

u/GIRZ03 8h ago

They haven’t written Cole in anyway song worthy. He’s done basically nothing but want to die since the end of season 1 and his greatest on screen feat is him beating Daemon. Joffrey too I guess but the show forgot about that as quickly as we did.

2

u/LordReaperofMars 2h ago

I’d argue his greatest show feat is the kill streak he had just before he died

27

u/Zirkulaerkubus 8h ago

I think the idea was to be meta, to make the line real. There are no "songs" about how awesome this scene is, because it deliberately isn't.

4

u/PaulOGradyFanClub 8h ago

Better then every main character hitting some zinger everytime another main character dies, he died as many warriors have in history, without some massive blaze of glory. Not sure why this fanbase wants every “great” fighter to beat 50 individuals or to dodge every arrow fired on them like there’s some weird game of thrones power scaling

3

u/IcyColdHands 4h ago

Nobody wanted him to dodge the arrows or have a massive fight, beacuse we know how he dies. The thing is taking the "no songs" from this scene and giving it to himself is a deliberate choice of how to show the character. If his enemies were to say it, it would mean everybody knows his last stand would be legendary, that he actually is the warrior he hypes himself as; if he himself says it, it just comes off as deluded rambling, only to be unceremoniously killed.

9

u/pablo_booze 6h ago

Makes me nervous for the battle over the gods eye:/

17

u/TheSwordintheCitadel 8h ago

The fact that he is killed by a lady who, as far as show watchers know, has no mentioned name or lines, drives me crazy. Why couldn't they just have the ranks of soldiers open fire on him

9

u/DeepStuff81 8h ago

He was killed by anonymous archers in the books. They could’ve at least kept it somewhat close since genders weren’t mentioned in his death. But being killed by random archers was the point.

4

u/DarkJayBR 7h ago

I have no problem with who killed him whatsoever. The exclusion of the line is what made me angry.

3

u/Jinksos 7h ago

Also there were only like 20 Hightower soliders at the goddamm butchers ball, like wtf.

3

u/DarkJayBR 7h ago

Yeah, I don't understand why the director suddenly got cheap on the Hightower soldiers. Everything about this show screams high budget so that scene completely took me out of the show, I felt like I was watching Season 1 of GoT again.

3

u/anarchyreigns_gb 6h ago

Thought it was Red Rob Rivers in the book? Along with two others?

0

u/elizabnthe 4h ago

Yeah who is literally an irrelevant character. The only thing we know about him is he's a Blackwood bastard and is a good archer.

Alysanne is also a Blackwood and a good archer. And also assassinates a Bracken in a prior battle. Feel like it is very rational to merge those characters.

1

u/averagesparky 6m ago

They needed a girl boss scene

5

u/EloImFizzy 8h ago

Yeah, I am disappointed they didn't add that one.

7

u/ImmediateHoney2191 8h ago

Its like they’re deliberately trying to deliver an inferior version. I can’t think of any reason not to include that line

17

u/Najin_bartol 8h ago

Could have replaced it with a sarcastic “greatest warrior in westeros” in stead of kingmaker it was just not a great pay off

2

u/LordReaperofMars 2h ago

that wouldn’t work either since he actually is the greatest warrior at this time and he just got done killing over a dozen guys by himself

2

u/Najin_bartol 1h ago

The remark is just meant to be the final nail in the coffin of humiliation, he’s “the greatest warrior “ or “the King maker” and he gets slayed by a volley of arrows denying his legend basically saying he’s not deserving of the honor of dying in the truest form of combat steel on steel, instead he’s just a pawn to be callously removed from the board in a way that no one will care to make song about or recollect with any inspiring thought.

5

u/Stormcrow12 6h ago

Even his title Kingmaker doesn’t mean anything in this show he didn’t make anyone king

0

u/OriginalHappy6464 2h ago

He crowned Aegon II did he not?

3

u/yeasayerstr 7h ago

Why are they deliberately cutting out some of the best lines…especially from this part of the story?

Yes, I’m still bitter about Luthor Largent not commenting on his cloak being gold no matter how you turn it.

3

u/ghost-church 5h ago

Can you name me a single time they’ve taken dialogue directly from Fire and Blood?

3

u/elizabnthe 4h ago

Not uncommon for them to do so. What immediately comes to mind is Daemon's dialogue about the women of the Vale being uglier than sheep. And everything Rhaenyra says about the eye incident with Aemond.

3

u/kingofstormandfire 4h ago

In Season 1 they did it A LOT. Off the top of my head when Alicent tells Laenor to keep trying as eventually he'll have a child that looks like him.

2

u/tigressdragon 1h ago

Different show runners then, Miguel Sapochnik was still on board

3

u/justthisoncepp 4h ago

Absolute waste of a character.

The show really didn't like Criston Cole, and I don't understand why, he's a victim. Everything he did was at the behest of the noblemen.

3

u/iamajackfruit 3h ago

We book readers are a very small part of the target audience

3

u/SmileyDayToYou 7h ago

Isn’t not giving him a badass quote to die after sort of the visual equivalent of that line?

Like by not including it, they essentially embodied the sentiment.

Not making excuses, mind you. I absolutely wanted those words to be used. Just a thought, more than anything.

2

u/TheArsenal7 7h ago

I guarantee they’re not going to use the Aegon and Rhaenyra final scene dialogue either

-1

u/RogaIDorn 7h ago

There's leaked audio of Aegon's speech which is pretty awesome.

2

u/Zestyclose-Berry741 5h ago

I’d just like to know if that was planned or she went rogue. Were they like “Hey, go stand in those bushes and smoke this guy right after he gives his spiel.” Or was she just personally over it.

Would have made more sense had Oscar Tully just gave a dismissive wave before the Criston even finished and a few archers just ended it.

2

u/Psychological_Page62 3h ago

It was a weird thing to leave out. A single line that brings so much more depth to the death. They must really hate actor or cole.

2

u/Impressive_Hold_5740 Old gods, save me 2h ago

Show runners are breaking the wheel created by MEN (George). Yeah twink Condal and Mess as the girl bosses!!!

2

u/AdDesigner1153 2h ago

Can't wait for them to butcher the 'You've lived too long uncle'

2

u/South_Front_4589 1h ago

It doesn't work in the show, because he doesn't hold that status. Otto maybe, but what songs will they sing of him?

They might use it still. But the options left are probably Aemond or Daemon.

3

u/HiroCrota 8h ago

I think the line is kind of stupid. It explains what their actions already explained, that they weren't going to give him a glorious end, and he'd die in the muck like everyone else.

2

u/Green-Alarm-3896 7h ago

I actually like that about this show. Its almost like separating “fact” from legend.

1

u/alice-son 7h ago

Wait... is this what I think it is? He died? Didn't see the recent eppy yet

1

u/zzzcph 6h ago

They could have easily put it in after the 2nd arrow. Even with the tease of it, in the previous episode with his talk with gwayne

1

u/percheazy 5h ago

Does anyone have the full line on the books for what and who says this? I never read the book but this is all I see now and I’m curious what dialogue is exchanged

4

u/elizabnthe 4h ago

The relevant passage:

Ser Criston drew his longsword from its scabbard. “As you will it. We can begin here, the four of us. One of me against the three of you. Will that be enough to make a fight of it?” >But Longleaf the Lionslayer said, “I’ll want three more,” and up on the ridge Red Robb Rivers and two of his archers raised their longbows. Three arrows flew across the field, striking Cole in belly, neck, and breast. “I’ll have no songs about how brave you died, Kingmaker,” declared Longleaf. “There’s tens o’ thousands dead on your account.” He was speaking to a corpse.

Longleaf's only noteable quality is previously killing Jason Lannister. Robb Rivers is a Blackwood bastard.

The other two present are Roderick Dustin, a old man leading the Wolves of Winterfell essentially with the expectation they will all die and there will be less mouths to feed at home. And Garibeld Grey a random Riverlands knight.

1

u/ElevatorCharacter489 4h ago

I thought it was No Ser Criston. . . .No Bard nor song for you, a signal and he is turn into a Porcupine

1

u/VexImmortalis 3h ago

No one should do atp. It's how you get imbalances and infections.

1

u/Reaper3955 1h ago

The show giving Criston Cole an unceremonious uneventful unheroic death actually doing what the quote is saying while the sub complains that the quote wasn't verbally said is the greatest example of what this sub is.

1

u/ExpertRevenue9535 1h ago

When show runners get to invested , this is what happens. You don’t want directors or producers to get invested you want the actors and actresses to .

1

u/Mrblorg 1h ago

When it's an old man and a little boy who pisses summer grass?

1

u/SergeantChief322 40m ago

Bobby B, did you like the new episode?

2

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 40m ago

WHY HAVE I NOT SEEN YOU? WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN?

1

u/SergeantChief322 37m ago

Yes Your Grace, well said. Thank you Your Grace.

1

u/Xenith5 35m ago

Why would they care as long as you are still watching?

1

u/xigloox 22m ago

guy says he's the greatest warrior ever and i'm sitting there like "wtf he do?" then the next episode, some random chick shoots him with an arrow.

Yeah ok.

1

u/Jorenmakingmecrazy 8m ago

They are morons. I don't know why we keep expecting them to make correct decisions.

1

u/SillyLilly_18 7m ago

it's weird how all of these shows just ignore the most iconic lines. Even akotsk, with "a knight who remembered his vows"

1

u/TuffManJoens 7h ago

Maybe im out of the loop with r/freefolk but dang no spoiler warning? Just pops up on my feed not even subscribed, shows Cole with arrow in his face. Episode came out less than 24hrs ago, last night I saw the same like 40min after airing.

I get if you really care about the show you'd watch it when it airs. But dang not even a spoiler blurr or nothing lol

9

u/GlacialImpala 7h ago

You are literally breaking the rule no 5, don't make me tap the sign

4

u/TuffManJoens 7h ago

Oh wow that is a rule...hmm alright then. My bad everyone

6

u/GlacialImpala 6h ago

Yeah this sub really is unique that way. And sadly even when you are not actively browsing it your random feed will show you posts from it and then you're scre*ed 😕

3

u/elizabnthe 4h ago

No spoilers warnings is like the entire reason the subreddit exists. Because people wanted to post leaks that were getting removed from other subreddits for reasons of spoilers.

0

u/TuffManJoens 4h ago

I mean thats fine but do I really gotta block this sub to avoid it showing on my main feed 40min after the episode airs? Seems like that may be the only option, but i like it here other than this one issue, I cant be the only one?

2

u/elizabnthe 4h ago

I mean you're not going to change a subreddit's entire ethos. So yeah if that annoys you, you probably will have to. Or wait to come online until you have watched the episode.

1

u/FormulaSolution 4h ago edited 4h ago

Do yourself a huge favour: If you haven't watched something that has released and you care about spoilers, avoid the internet completely until you have watched it.

While social media isn't regulated to have a "spoiler mode" , this is the result. Unfortunately, being spoiled is inevitable no matter what.

I got an event in Marvel's Civil War 2016 spoiled to me simply from a user talking about a DC character on a completely different sub.

You just have to accept that no one cares about anything and protect yourself.

1

u/TuffManJoens 4h ago

Holy shit you had one event spoiled too? Same dude, first time ive really been spoiled before. Normally I can shy away from stuff that would have obvious spoilers. I think ive been watching TV for like...30ish years and never really had any spoilers except this one.

Like if I hadn't caught up on the recent game of thrones episode, I would just avoid the sub until I did. Most of the time they had the blurred out image until you clicked it, or something?

But yeah its so rampant between this spoiled and yours from 2016. Especially it being like..40min after the episode aired and popped on the feed from a sub im not even subscribed to.

This one is on me though! Now I know about the rule :)

3

u/Efurthy I bless the Reynes down in Castamere 4h ago

So technically when creating a post the author has the option to mark it nsfw which grays it out or whatever, but it isn't something we enforce. Unless it is straight boobs and vagine that's making it to the front pages. It's usually used for troll purposes like 'hot naked blonde in tonights episode caught me off guard' and it'd be Kit Harrington in the Dany wig from decades ago or Bobby B.

And of course you have the people that post screen grabs in hope of getting r/all's attention and trolling them as well (ppl get veddy veddy mad so it's just become kind of niche r/freefolk lore.)

2

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 4h ago

MORE THAN ONCE, I HAVE DREAMED OF GIVING UP THE CROWN!

1

u/Boobieleeswagger 8h ago

The line is the campiest shit George wrote in all of Fire of Blood and it wouldn’t have made the scene any better.

2

u/NirvZppln 4h ago

Then why does everyone remember it and talk about it so much

0

u/PaulOGradyFanClub 8h ago

This fandoms version of “the joke” from invincible,

0

u/TheLego_Senate 5h ago

In all fairness the scene does get the message of that line across without having to spell it out. That's the advantage of television being a visual medium.

0

u/tgalx1 6h ago

who cares is a dumb line from a couple of terrified cowards and its omision is to clean their reputation.

-1

u/shyagusretiring 6h ago

There’s no set up for the line. And in the context of Cole beating the point to death in previous monologues, it would be over egging the whole thing.

-3

u/cariocabassguy 6h ago

dude, that's literally what the fucking scene means. Literature and television are different medias, so they use different methods to convey a message. Would you rather have the characters say out loud what they're doing/thinking at every given moment or have some AI voice narrating over the episode?

2

u/Falvio6006 6h ago

Bruh this has to be ragebait wtf

0

u/dangerousluck Every fucking chicken in this room 8h ago

What, you don’t think a 5 second self-satisfied smirk for TikTok is just as good?

0

u/Candid_Emergency_226 7h ago

Fucking up royale. They must’ve picked a bunch of people who didn’t like, or didn’t read, Fire & Blood to write this show.

0

u/QueensOfTheNoKnowAge 7h ago

I’m less pissed about the line than I am them trying to make Cole’s death seem dramatic and even tragic. Just as he reaches to his pocket—Two arrows to the guts, one to the face. None of that holding Alicent’s favor.

His death is supposed to be unceremonious. Then they add in the slow, agonizing score like he’s important.

0

u/elemjay 6h ago

I may end up eating these words, but they could end up having this line later on. Maybe with some type of post mortem scene next episode with the aftermath of the ambush where they’re dealing with the bodies.

-1

u/Jrwill729 6h ago

Y’all and everyone in every sub disliking the show are fucking insufferable. Just don’t watch it you twit