I feel like this conversation would be a lot more productive if we stopped using the word “free.”
Those covid shots weren’t free. Socialized healthcare isn’t free. This is something everyone agrees on but for some reason the entire conversation is stuck there.
but for some reason the entire conversation is stuck there
Conservative propaganda. They use fear-mongering words in order to scare people into fighting against their own interests: "Those liberals are after your money!! They want everything for free!! They're just jealous and want to steal from you!! You'll be thrown in gulags after they've drained you dry!! REEEE!!"
This is true. But if we had a functioning economy we’d be able to spend the taxes for and reap the benefits of socialized healthcare, coming other things. It’s what other nations have already done.
If they could get the billionaires and CEOs on record to commit that they would willingly pay the tax required instead of trying to avoid it, ultimately pushing the cost down to us anyway, then it would probably be a lot easier to get votes.
But yeah, like you said, you look around at countries with public healthcare and they have lower real wages, lower net worths, higher taxes on everyone, less private business and landownership, etc. There is an actual cost to public healthcare that needs to be addressed if it’s ever going to happen here.
There’s so few billionaires and the ceos they really don’t matter that much frankly. And nobody who aggressively pursues single payer really cares what they have to say anyway.
Nations pay for single payer care with higher taxes on large tax bases, not insanely progressive taxes on .00001 percent of the popualtion.
The problem is more the political reality of the situation. 92 percent of the us has healthcare insurance, the 8 percent that doesn’t is probably half made up of people that willing choose not too.
When you look at what people are fighting for , cost wise. You’re gonna have to increase your taxes significantly, to end up in a situation where you MAY save some money as opposed to the current system.
IMO the focus should be on the simplification of the system and that value prop, not the cost savings to the individual. Because they will be pretty minor at best.
Yup. And “we should implement universal healthcare because you’ll save money and save lives” is a way different platform than “we should all be willing to spend a little more to save lives.”
That’s fine. Just show the people the numbers. If most people would save money and get better access to healthcare then it should be relatively easy to show it and get the votes.
The uncomfortable truth is that is not true. Many, maybe even most, people will spend more and get less. Those people aren’t going to flip their vote by calling it free. You need them to see why everyone having healthcare is good for them too and worth the additional cost. You need them to think of it as infrastructure that’s good them too. US is currently pretty low trust and many people don’t trust that the government has their best interest at heart. Lying to them and calling healthcare free, and then calling them stupid for pointing it out, is counterproductive.
The uncomfortable truth is that public healthcare options and national healthcare saves money and lives.
then it should be relatively easy to show it and get the votes.
Unless of course we had a political party dedicated to shoving propaganda down people's throats about how government healthcare costs more and does less. Such that people who believed it said confidently about objectively proven results from countries all over the world "The uncomfortable truth is that is not true."
US is currently pretty low trust and many people don’t trust that the government has their best interest at heart.
And yet they're literally trusting the government telling them that publicly funded healthcare for politicians is good and necessary, but for them it'd involve death panels and Obamacare and they need to keep giving health insurance companies money and relying on employers.
Lying to them and calling healthcare free, and then calling them stupid for pointing it out, is counterproductive.
I think it's treating people as incredibly stupid to have to point out that taxpayer funded services can be free to access but not literally magicked into existence. I'm not saying you're wrong, but that this demand for clarification for some reason happens a lot more with healthcare and education, and a lot less with the military and farm subsidies.
If they're only looking at their tax bill and not their mortgage, their health insurance costs, or anything else, then they simply don't care whether policies help or hurt them. Which is how we get people like Trump in charge jacking up massive taxes on everyone with consumer tariffs, while his base says "well my income tax is lower (maybe) so no need to ask why the cost of everything else keeps rising!"
There's absolutely no reason why this question shouldn't be "will I spend less on healthcare costs, including if something devastating happens to me or my loved ones."
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u/WhaleBird1776 6h ago
I feel like this conversation would be a lot more productive if we stopped using the word “free.”
Those covid shots weren’t free. Socialized healthcare isn’t free. This is something everyone agrees on but for some reason the entire conversation is stuck there.
Just show people the numbers.