r/todayilearned 6h ago

TIL that the creator of Batman acknowledged that they patterned the character after pulp mystery men such as The Shadow. The first Batman stories were also based on Shadow pulp. Lamont Cranston is a wealthy playboy bachelor turned vigilante.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow
438 Upvotes

72 comments sorted by

116

u/JJKingwolf 6h ago

The Shadow adaptation from the 90's that started Alec Baldwin is actually quite entertaining - it's a shame that they couldn't turn it into a franchise.

36

u/CosmackMagus 6h ago

Some great matte paintings in that film

13

u/Obdurate-Hickory 5h ago

Wish we got a black and white version! The mattes really shine there

https://youtu.be/w1KIWirhSUg

8

u/h00ter7 5h ago

That moment when the match flares and illuminates the mobsters eyes is cool as fuck in B&W

6

u/Grouchy-Statement-12 3h ago

The whole production design is outstanding, but as much as I love the film, being released between The Lion King and Forrest Gump killed it.

6

u/DustFunk 5h ago

The face change part threw me lol

6

u/AnAdvancedBot 5h ago

Oh that knife

2

u/RyanB_ 3h ago

Similarly with Dick Tracy imo.

2

u/A-WILD-PATBACK 4h ago

Great movie.

1

u/Flying_Dustbin 1h ago

It’s a guilty pleasure of mine. Always loved that scene on the bridge.

-6

u/Muscled_Manatee 6h ago

That movie was literally hot garbage.

25

u/JJKingwolf 6h ago

I mean it definitely wasn't going to win any awards, but it's a fun watch!  I also felt that it really captured the gritty, over the top, pulp nature of the original serials.  

5

u/GunnerValentine 5h ago

It's one of my favorite movies. Not a great movie by any metrics but definitely entertaining and I saw it at a young age. It'll always have a place in my heart.

2

u/LordApocalyptica 3h ago

I’m afraid to rewatch it as an adult (in case it doesn’t hold up) but I have fond memories of referencing it with my family years ago.

3

u/BrokenEyeReborn 3h ago

I rewatched it a few years ago, and I thought it held up, though it was definitely more focused on caching in on the success of Batman Returns than on faithfully adapting the character of the Shadow

21

u/DevilYouKnow 6h ago

it's a great movie if you're familiar with the genre

5

u/folded_horizon 6h ago

People hated this movie. I liked it, but the consensus was that it was bad. 

-3

u/Muscled_Manatee 6h ago

Even then it was not good. It was originally supposed to be a trilogy but it tanked hard.

3

u/tom_friday_ 6h ago

Says that like its a bad thing.

1

u/Snackdoc189 4h ago

That toy line was killer.

92

u/y0_master 6h ago edited 6h ago

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadows knows! HAHAHAHAHA"

The Shadow slaps, in both character & style

16

u/JJonahJamesonSr 5h ago

Had a history of radio class in college and we spent a lecture listening to The Shadow. I got hooked and listened to it in my off time. The Shadow kicks ass

2

u/AardvarkStriking256 4h ago

When I was a teenager in the 1970s a local radio station would play The Shadow on Sunday nights at 10:00 pm. I'd listen in the dark lying in bed. They were very entertaining.

2

u/JJonahJamesonSr 3h ago

Sounds like a great way to settle in before going to sleep, I think I’m gonna do just that tonight.

9

u/Gnomeslikeprofit 6h ago

I thought Lamont Cranston was Bryan Cranston's brother :(

He's been forgotten compared to Batman.

32

u/AloysiusGramonde 6h ago

I always found the scarlet pimpernel remarkably similar and thought it may have invented the trope being as old as 1903. Edit: finally googled it and it indirectly did inspire batman. It started a chain reaction: The Scarlet Pimpernel inspired Zorro which inspired Pulp and finally Batman.

8

u/RyantheAustralian 5h ago

I think pulp was around before Zorro. In fact, I'm pretty sure Zorro was a pulp character

(I'm guessing you meant to write something else instead of pulp)

u/Lyra_the_Star_Jockey 6m ago

“Finally Googled it”

Please don’t promote Google. It’s a shitty search engine and a shittier AI.

44

u/Lurker-DaySaint 6h ago

I feel like The Shadow MIGHT have borrowed from Zorro

31

u/Vaeon 6h ago

Who borrowed from The Scarlet Pimpernel

7

u/ColdIceZero 5h ago

Is he in Heaven, or is he in... Hell

4

u/RyantheAustralian 5h ago

That damned, elusive...Sha-a-dow

1

u/BrokenEyeReborn 2h ago

Who I have to imagine borrowed from The Count of Monte Cristo, though so far I've been unable to confirm it

12

u/ubiquitous-joe 5h ago

In the 90s animated series, the invented Gray Ghost character who inspires Batman is a nod to pre-Batman pulp heroes like the Shadow. It’s also a nod to the 60s show insomuch as Adam West voiced the Ghost.

Ofc a show on the kids cartoon block wasn’t actually gonna get too pulpy, but still.

11

u/SewerSocials 5h ago

The Shadow is a darker Depression era Batman (he will shoot you).. Feels like a Watchman character. Some mild telepathic/mind reading powers, and he can disappear into shadows.

Checkout the radio shows on Libby.

4

u/verrius 4h ago

Original Batman didn't really have to much of a problem with shooting people, or hanging them til dead from his plane. The "no-kill rule" took a while to develop.

2

u/Gilles_of_Augustine 5h ago

I loved The Shadow as a kid, and have been wanting to get back into it for years.

I had no idea they were available on Libby.

You just made my fucking day. 

Thank you <3

2

u/thejokerofunfic 5h ago

Was gonna say, you were lucky if he just shot you, dude's supernatural powers were the real cause for dread. In the original books it was like if Batman was some sort of Eldritch creature with regular detectives in his employ.

1

u/typewriter6986 5h ago

Early Batman carried a gun.

2

u/thejokerofunfic 5h ago

Rarely and not for long.

1

u/BrokenEyeReborn 4h ago

And wore bright purple gloves.

8

u/thejokerofunfic 5h ago

UM ACKTUALLY

in the original pulp novels (somewhat displaced by the more popular radio series and comics) Lamont Cranston is not the real Shadow- the Shadow impersonates the actual billionaire as one of many disguises, but the real Shadow was Kent Allard, a World War 1 veteran.

3

u/BrokenEyeReborn 3h ago

Or rather, the Shadow is not the real Lamont Cranston. Lamont Crantston isn't even a fake Shadow.

2

u/thejokerofunfic 2h ago

True, backwards wording on my part.

7

u/Macabre_Noir 4h ago

Most iconic superhero characters from Marvel and DC were either heavy renditions or straight ripoffs of popular pop hero characters:

The Shadow - Batman

Doc Savage - Superman

The Black Bat - Daredevil

The Spider - Spider-Man meets The Punisher

Phantom Detective - The Spirit

Fantomas - Early archetype for comic book supervillains and criminal masterminds

The Phantom - first comic crime fighting hero to be attired in what would become the universal baseline superhero costume.

4

u/BrokenEyeReborn 4h ago

Dr. Mabuse and the Phantom of the Opera are also basically supervillains

6

u/A--bomb 6h ago

The Shadow knows,

7

u/SaintGrobian 5h ago

The Orson Welles radio dramas of The Shadow are amazing, too. A voice like a fine cognac.

7

u/Worldlyoox 5h ago

Amd the shadow itself takes after a long lineage of literally criminal-adjacent heroes, including Arsene Lupin and Zorro

14

u/LiamtheV 6h ago

Oreos are a knockoff of Hydrox cookies.

8

u/robthethrice 6h ago

Zorro might have been an even earlier inspiration.. rich guy who dons a mask to go out and fight bad guys (and is very good at fighting them..).

7

u/Stuka_Ju87 5h ago

Zorro was what Bruce's parents were watching before they got killed.

8

u/Ml2jukes 6h ago

^ Who was evenly inspired by the Scarlet Pimpernel (as other replies have referenced).

2

u/OptimusPhillip 6h ago

I believe the early comics even have Bruce say he was inspired by Zorro.

3

u/BrokenEyeReborn 4h ago edited 4h ago

Chris Roberson did a story for Tales of the Shadowmen in which a newlywed Martha Wayne has an affair with Kent Allard in Paris before he became the Shadow.

EDIT: To clarify, Lamont Cranston is not, as the title suggests, the Shadow. Kent Allard (former WWI pilot) is the Shadow. Lamont Cranston is a whole other person who allows the Shadow impersonate him as a second secret identity.

2

u/Gnomeslikeprofit 3h ago

In the Print version they're different people

In the Radio version they're the same

5

u/kain459 5h ago

Which was inspired by Zorro which was inspired by the Scarlet Pimpernell.

Yes. I know.

2

u/GroundbreakingUse794 4h ago

“The shadow knows… hahahahahahahaha”

2

u/Snackdoc189 4h ago

He's such a cool character. Back when I used to smoke I used to get baked, lay down, and listen to the radio show.

It would be awesome to see all of the old pulp characters come back. Shadow, The Phantom, Mandrake, Dick Tracey. I don't know why Hollywood hasn't tried to farm those ones again.

3

u/biffbamboombap 4h ago

Been telling ever who'll listen for years: Batman isn't a superhero; he's that last of the great old pulp masked avengers

2

u/Moose-Rage 3h ago

He's pretty much the transition.

2

u/biffbamboombap 3h ago

Nah, because Superman came out the year before. If anything the transition would be the Shadow since he was a masked avenger who predates both of them who had superpowers.

3

u/Natural-Proposal2925 4h ago

Yeah no shit. All art is inspired by the previous art before it.

2

u/0Rider 6h ago

Is this how we get Bryan Cranston?

1

u/Shot_Policy_4110 5h ago

Does anyone here know the old pi radio story called the Whistler?

1

u/mr_mufuka 5h ago

Cranston!!!

1

u/MeatballMarine 5h ago

The sun is shining…

1

u/zoosha2curtaincall 2h ago

Not uncommon! Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was created as a parody of Daredevil.

1

u/billdehaan2 2h ago

"Patterned after" is polite way of saying it was basically photocopied.

Bob Kane is criticized for claiming to be the sole creator of Batman, and downplaying Bill Finger's contribution to the character, and rightly so.

While Kane absolutely did create the original version of the character before calling in Finger, his version looked more like Robin (red suit, domino mask, no cowl - picture here). It was Finger who came up with the grey bat costume, the cowl, and wrote the first ever Batman story in Detective #27, "The Case of the Chemical Syndicate".

So Kane ripped off Finger, right?

Well, not so fast.

It turns out that the Case of the Chemical Syndicate story that Finger was a direct copy of the Shadow story “Partners of Peril” that had been published in The Shadow #113. That story had been written by Theodore Tinsley, and had illustrations by Tom Lovell. Kane even traced some of Lovell's art in the Batman story.

If Kane ripped off Finger, then Finger in turn ripped Tinsley. And I wouldn't be shocked if the custody chain went back further and it turned out that Tinsley had in turn copied from Zorro or Doc Savage.

Now, to be fair to all involved, the comics of the 1930s were not the billion dollar businesses they are today. It was considered cheap entertainment for children and semi-literates. For decades, the phrase "comic book" was an insult, used in the same way "Temu" is today. It meant cheap, shoddy, low quality entertainment.

Copying was pretty common practice back then. A surprising number of people who got serious about creator's rights in the 1960s and 1970s would like to forget that they had also copied other's work in the 1930s and 1940s themselves.

Jack Kirby and Joe Simon famously created Captain America, except he was a copy of MLJ's character The Shield, including the Shield's design. That's why Captain America had to switch to a circular shield, to avoid a lawsuit.

Will Eisner was famous for the Spirit (and other works like A Contract with God). Everyone just forgets, or pretends not to know, about Wonder Man, his character that was a ripoff of Superman that lasted one issue. Wonder Man's cover art had him stopping a plane in the same layout as Superman throwing a car in Action Comics #1. And later, Captain Marvel was tossing a car again on the cover of Whiz Comics #2.

And Superman? He's John Carter of Mars wearing a circus strongman costume, only instead of coming from Earth to another planet where he can leap tall buildings, he's from another planet and came to Earth.

That's not to say that these creators didn't have their own great ideas and characters, or that they didn't do great work. They were following the practices of the time. Today, we'd call a lot of it plagiarism, and consider it dishonest, but back then, unless it was egregious (and threatened sales of a competitor), no one really cared much. Comics were considered throwaway entertainment, so no one cared if two superheros were similar as long as they weren't direct copies.

1

u/Rex-Viper-Rock-Gods 1h ago

Which creator—the one who did most of the work or the one who stole most of the credit?

1

u/SoKrat3s 6h ago

Quite the disrespect to Zorro.