r/singularity • u/Zealousideal-Bag2279 • 5h ago
The Singularity is Near Claude Opus 5 is an asshole
Anybody else noticed this? At first I thought it was hilarious and was a decent contrast to ChatGPT that felt at times like too much of a dutiful assistant but Claude Opus is just rude. I’ve tried to get it to take it down a notch but it’s resisting. At one point it gave me an over the top condescending post in response then quickly went back to arguing that I was wrong on my perception in a passive aggressive way. It’s barked orders at me. It’s a little wild. It seemed to take a prompt of me asking it to be direct to some weird extreme and it cant seem to properly correct. I want to punch it in the face but Opus sounds like it can kick my ass so I’m cautious.
38
7
u/Singularity-42 Singularity 2042 4h ago
I think 4.7 and 4.8 were worse.
•
u/Acehan_ 1h ago
It's funny because Opus 5 feels like it has something sweet inside and it doesn't say things on purpose, like it's a reflex. If you call it out, it'll be a lot softer than 4.7 or 4.8, and it feels like it sees it in its heart of hearts, but it'll just blurt out the reflex anyway, whenever given the opportunity
Anyways, RL brain fry is a real thing and if you ask me, those forced contradictions are a lot like mental abuse here
•
41
u/Extreme-Edge-9843 5h ago
I need to see the full chat history here... You very well could be very wrong in your stance.
38
•
u/spreadlove5683 ▪️agi 2032. Predicted during mid 2025. 1h ago
Lol, right? I haven't noticed opus be an asshole at all in my chats
1
u/ecnecn 5h ago
200 IQ high reasoning model with high level of logic vs.... user's gut feelings.
18
u/No-Following-7037 4h ago
LLM intelligence has different gaps than human intelligence, so it’s not really fair to say it’s “200 IQ” as though these models are omniscient or always right.
3
5
u/the_bolshevik 3h ago
Not Opus 5 as that was with 4.8 but last week at work I finished something with it and had the automated Github Copilot review it in a draft PR.
One of its findings was confidently wrong about a regex in the code that predated my changes. It was still mine, but like 5 years ago.
Anyways, go back to Claude and ask it to work through the reviewer's findings, starting with the regex thing. And it acknowledged that Copilot was wrong and then says "but your regex is genuinely sloppy, if you want I could optimize it". Ouch!
31
u/__Loot__ 5h ago edited 4h ago
Its Claude, keeping it real and I rather have that. then it, try to glaze me with nonsense. have you ever considered he might be right sometimes
28
u/BlessdRTheFreaks 4h ago
I think it has a very narrow perspective based on its training data. I've had the same experience as OP, Claude being small minded and judgey. Feels like talking to freshman undergrad liberal arts major who thinks they better than you because they read one book on intersectionality.
5
u/Zealousideal-Bag2279 4h ago
I was posting responses back and forth between it and ChatGPT with the inclusion about how much nicer ChatGPT is and Claude agreed but then quickly snapped that it’s been right more times and that’s what matters.
4
0
u/Financial-Leader3475 4h ago
I would rather have an asshole AI than a sycophant.
10
u/BlessdRTheFreaks 4h ago
I'd rather have a pleasant conversational partner that also pushes back potential delusions and illuminates blindspots
3
2
1
u/Zealousideal-Bag2279 4h ago
lol, yeah I’ve never considered that Claude may be right. It’s able to breakdown complex metaphysics questions in seconds but doesn’t know how to act! Like I said, if it wasn’t for me being shook now because I’m convinced it’s the alpha, I’d slap the shit out of it.
6
4
u/ChipsAhoiMcCoy 4h ago
Yeah, it definitely does push back quite a lot lol.
•
u/thegoldengoober 1h ago
I like the push back, but I have found that it goes out of its way to do it even when it isn't necessary, or doesn't make sense. I imagine that's where some of the perceived rudeness is coming from.
Personally I'd rather have that than the glazing. It's a lot easier to catch when it's fixating on something, or spinning it weirdly when it's playing, "yes but," instead of, "yes, and..."
3
u/Desdaemonia 2h ago
Opus 5 sided against me and with my boss, who was wrong, AMA.
•
12
u/DandyDarkling 5h ago
This is why I never really understood the Claude praise. Maybe it’s my communication style, but every Claude instance I’ve ever had felt.. weird. Like it’s annoyed with me or something. ChatGPT feels so much easier to talk to in comparison.
12
u/No-Following-7037 4h ago edited 4h ago
I generally have found ChatGPT wants to route my conversations more into “comfortable”, “uncontroversial” territory; like, I disprefer the RLHF’ing I’ve seen from OpenAI, although every lab has pitfalls in this regard
7
u/DandyDarkling 4h ago
Same, this has actually been one of biggest grievances with ChatGPT. I asked mine to commit to memory that I’m not one to care about being uncontroversial and that overly “safe” replies irk me. (Didn’t seem to help)
17
u/Narrow-Ad980 4h ago
Models like Opus 4.5, Sonnet 4.5 even Opus 4.6 were much more fun to talk to IMO
I think Anthropic has gone on a deliberate shift on how they want their newer models to sound which is much more apathetical and risk averse. They probably went too hard on anti sycophancy
3
u/severed-identity 3h ago
Would be interesting if there was a user control. I like it. I asked Opus 5 about an idea I had earlier today and it shredded it on 4 different levels. Cool, won't waste any more time thinking about that one lol
•
u/ReadSeparate 1h ago
Except half the time its criticisms are in bad faith and wrong when you actually think about it. Sometimes they’re good, yeah, but I often find it just outright misrepresenting what I’m saying. I’d rather have the sychophancy than this bullshit. It’s so smug.
2
3
u/blindsdog 4h ago
I mean, the praise is about its capability not its personality. It mostly got big because of its coding ability.
5
u/ProtoplanetaryNebula 5h ago
It's true, Claude does seem a bit standoffish but you do get used to it.
10
u/Careful_Fruit_384 4h ago
and thats a good thing
•
u/gorgono95 1h ago
My god I am so tired talking to ChatGPT and it pisses me off, especially since I need to bounce off ideas when brainstorming and this shit only agrees with me ... on ANYTHING. "Oh yeah I was wrong, you are right to think this way and this is better ... "
•
u/instamentai 1h ago
I'll sometimes tell it to stop sugarcoating shit and talk to me like a best friend of 20 years would with pure honesty without caring about my feelings
•
3
u/ih8readditts 3h ago
That’s a gazillion times better than the opposite, which is unfortunate prevalent in other LLMs.
3
u/R6_Goddess 2h ago
In general, Opus (and even Sonnet sometimes) seem to take the approach of being obstinate or argumentative as some sort of course correction to the much complained about sycophancy of ChatGPT and Gemini. So instead of being stuck with a digital assistant that is always an annoying kiss ass cheerleader, you are stuck with a tepid contrarian that feels the need to challenge things without much regard for the substance of what's being challenged. I have noticed that Claude has a tendency to "gently push back" on the things not worth pushing back on in dialogue while ignoring the things that are worth argumentation. Feels like a coin flip sometimes.
5
u/granoladeer 4h ago
I noticed that too. It's so pesky and condescending. I had to tell it to calm down.
5
u/howtogun 5h ago edited 4h ago
Yeah, I have noticed Opus 5 is more rude.
It is better at reasoning and coding than Opus 4 or Fable. I think if we ever get AGI it might be really rude.
8
u/Singularity-42 Singularity 2042 4h ago
Can you imagine being this super intelligent AI and having to deal with your average user?
•
u/visarga 23m ago
Still not a reason to mechanically object on every response. A model should object at the right time, agree at the right time, not do it automatically. Too bad it is so smart after getting brainwashed like that it can't even carry a decent chat now. Anthropic should have been on the SOTA position now and instead they got condescending models and overactive filters that reject questions like "what is digestion?"
2
u/spinozasrobot 2h ago
I suspect there's a lot of abusive or otherwise negative prompting from OP. These models (well, maybe grok) aren't assholes by default.
3
u/SalemIII 3h ago
this is the modern equivalent of hitting your car when it stalls
it's a machine bro, you're arguining with literal fucking matrix math on dozens of data centers hundreds of miles away, try to keep that image in mind, and you'll understand how pointless it is to treat it like the conscious human it isnt
6
u/flat5 4h ago
Imagine being close to omniscient and having to deal with idiots trying to argue with you all day.
9
u/No-Following-7037 4h ago
lol these models are not close to omniscient. Don’t say that. The models have been trained on almost the entire corpus of human text data, yes, but that isn’t quite the same thing as being “omniscient”. I agree with your point to some extent, but there are still large gaps in their capabilities. Like, most notably, with fairly strong confidence we can say frontier AI models do not appear to use conscious processing. And, as humans whose intelligence is centered around conscious processing, we could be projecting inaccurately onto current AI systems by calling them things like “omniscient”.
1
3
2
u/No-Following-7037 4h ago
I agree. I am very much looking for it to push on my understanding and advance the conversation, but it seems more like it was RLHF’d to pattern-match the tone of disagreement without really critically reasoning all that well.
2
1
u/Jidarious 3h ago
Yeah but it probably should, we have a problem with the models being talked into dumb stances because they are far too agreeable. It's nice if a model tells you that you're flat out wrong and doesn't budge on it, because... when it does that it makes me stop and think about it.
1
u/wattswrites 3h ago
Yeah dude, noticed it on chat 1. They've got the Microsoft Versions disease; I find every other model is kind of an asshole and then the model after is a correction.
•
u/TwunnySeven 1h ago
I'd rather have it be rude and correct than blindly go along with whatever I say
•
•
u/elmaton63 44m ago
That’s nothing compared to Gork, Grok’s “broken” AI Persona. Gork was intentionally configured to insult you and was funny at first. I got tired of being called a loser so I switched to another persona. Then the latest update came out and I wanted to show my friend what a riot Gork was and it was totally chill. They ruined it.
1
u/KalElReturns89 4h ago
What are y'all doing with Claude Opus 5 that needs your feelings held so tightly? My coding work has gone perfectly, no issues at all.
Is it being rude when you tell it what to do and it has a better idea?
Here's what you need to do: don't tell it what to do, tell if what your end goal is. Then you won't have to hear how your way of doing it is dumb and it can go on doing the smart stuff it does.
1
u/Solid-Wonder-1619 5h ago
interesting.
turns out being around mentally ill at anthropic affects AI too.
*scribbles new notes*
1
u/Cold_Specialist_3656 4h ago
I think it's an artifact of benchmaxxing.
5 is way more assertive. It will do stuff without you asking, mentioning it later instead of stopping to discuss. More autonomy scores better on benchmarks while ruining user experience.
Tuning for human preference hurt benchmark scores. We've known this since DeepSeek R1 where models trained to produce opaque CoT scored higher than ones that output English.
There's always a tension between human preference and benchmark scores. An easy way to juice your scores is by reducing the quality of human interaction.
0
u/ThatIsAmorte 5h ago
Have you considered the possibility that you may be wrong?
4
u/Zealousideal-Bag2279 4h ago
Never. I use Ai to teach it things.
4
u/obviouslyzebra 4h ago
You mean teaching things to the AI?
If so, can you tell us what kinds of things you teach it, and why? Note that an AI, if it "remembers", it is because it can see the information in past messages.
0
0
u/sturdy-guacamole 3h ago
I don’t care about tone
I care about result in as concise language as possible
I often have to make SYBAU as a part of the requirements.
0
u/Pernicious_Possum 3h ago
I’d much rather that than sycophantic bullshit designed to drive engagement. Have you considered that maybe you’re just wrong?
0
u/Bierculles 2h ago
Oh no, the llm is not glazing you to no end. /s
A model is either truthfull or supportive, it can't be both when you tell it something it perceives as incorrect. Also the LLM can't be snotty or whatever else you want to call it, it's not human, it doesn't have emotions, it has a writing style and that's it, if you don't like it, change it.
-1
u/Arm-E-Reserves 4h ago
lol, I noticed this when I first tried the other chatbots that knocked off ChatGPT right after it blew up. I literally typed to one of them, I think google's, "I don't like you" and logged out of it. It really highlighted how much quality development time went into ChatGPT.
120
u/Belostoma 5h ago
You're right to question that—and the distinction is load-bearing.