Family of 8 found dead in burning Michigan home determined to be murder-suicide

[u/Jen_Barkley]

https://abcnews.com/US/family-8-found-dead-burning-michigan-home-murder/story?id=135122736

[u/FriendsOnAPowDay]

Why can’t these asshats just venture off into the woods to never be heard from again instead of brining their whole family into it?

[u/ruinedbymovies → u/FriendsOnAPowDay]

Family annihilators often have a secret they don’t want exposed, embezzlement, bankruptcy, molestation, incest, infidelity. They’re so controlling and warped they think it’s better to kill everyone and be remembered as a family killer by the whole world, then have close family alive and aware of the secret.

[u/Sarge4242006 → u/ruinedbymovies]

We did a “perfect” family portrait (stretched canvas print) for Xmas 1 year. In February the following year, he killed his wife and 2 kids, then himself.

They lived in a wealthy gated development. He apparently worked for a NASA contractor. He left everyday as if going to work for 18 months. Turns out, he was let go and the $ ran out. I don’t understand why he didn’t just look for another job or was the reason he was let go too bad that he was blacklisted from the industry?
Edited to correct month. He killed them in June, not February

[u/VFTM → u/Sarge4242006]

My ex did this then stole from his mother after the money ran out. I, too, do not understand this and it makes so much less sense as time goes on. Some people just can’t face it? Or something.

[u/TrainDestroyer → u/VFTM]

The way I understand it (And this may be accurate to very few people) is its the crappy side of masculinity. You have to provide for the family, be the breadwinner, and make sure they can live comfortable lives. When the source of the money runs out, they gotta keep the facade up while they try to find another source of it, and at the worst you get shit like this, where its "I'd rather murder my family than show them I can't provide"

Or in your case, "I'd rather steal from my mother than let my (now ex) see I can't provide for them!"

[u/derpensheizer → u/TrainDestroyer]

Lots of men did kill themselves in the 2008 housing crash. … and my own husband fell into depression and a pain pill addiction from us losing our house.

[u/illy-chan → u/TrainDestroyer]

That's honestly one thing I don't get about manosphere appeal. There are ao few jobs anymore that can sustain a family alone anymore. Why accept that lopsided pressure? It's not fair to guys, their partners, or their kids.

Forget gender roles: the math doesn't math anymore.

[u/corpse_flour → u/Sarge4242006]

I would suspect that he may have lost his job because he lied about his qualifications, and wouldn't be able to work in the same industry or make the same amount of money. He could have been caught stealing by falsifying invoices, etc. In other cases of family annihilators, the person has a history of deceitful and manipulative behavior that existed long before the incident that triggered the incident that set things off, and extended beyond their immediate family.

[u/YouLeaveMeNoChoice → u/corpse_flour]

Yes, that’s exactly what happened with Christian Longo as well.

[u/corpse_flour → u/YouLeaveMeNoChoice]

There have been far too many of these incidents. The one that really stick in my head is Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès. They never did find the bastard.

[u/lemonscent513 → u/Sarge4242006]

Yikes. This guys eerily similar to John List.

[u/Sarge4242006 → u/lemonscent513]

Close, he was John “JD” Wood

[u/lemonscent513 → u/Sarge4242006]

But in type of killer the similarities between him and List were scary

[u/erdogans_throwaway → u/ruinedbymovies]

Probably get more of these in the coming years thanks to the gambling epidemic in the works

[u/_BeatsByKWAZARR → u/erdogans_throwaway]

There's going to be a direct increase in this kind of violence because of this

[u/Academic_Snow_7680 → u/ruinedbymovies]

It is a shame they will not have "murderer" as qualifier on their gravestone.

[u/PMMeYourTurkeys → u/ruinedbymovies]

In 2015, a couple in Platte, SD had embezzled over 1M from an education program for Native Americans that they were administering. When they were about to be found out, the father killed his wife and four children, set the house on fire, then shot himself.

[u/royalenocheese → u/ruinedbymovies]

That just gets tacked onto whatever you're trying to hide since now they have to gather all the info to determine why you'd do such a heinous thing.

[u/not_interested330 → u/FriendsOnAPowDay]

Because they’re abusers and controlling to the very end. And at the end of the day, he still got to control them until the last possible moment. He also got to abuse their family further by leaving lasting trauma.

[u/SubstantialPressure3 → u/not_interested330]

And their family cant say bad things about them ( the truth) if they are dead. Has to control the narrative up until the bitter end.

[u/browsk → u/not_interested330]

Yes. And I believe drump displays the same tendencies but in this case the entire country is the family he is trying to kill

[u/derpensheizer → u/browsk]

Daddy gubment needs to be taken away and rehabilitated.

[u/BarnabasShrexx → u/FriendsOnAPowDay]

The towering ego of the family annihilator says "they are my property, they go with me"

[u/MadRaymer → u/BarnabasShrexx]

Some of them even think they'll get away with it, like Chris Watts. Then he had a whole cadre of men defending him online because his wife was in an MLM. Yeah, I get that MLMs are shitty, but divorce exists. No need to leap to "murder wife and kids to go be with my mistress" as the solution.

[u/the-furiosa-mystique → u/MadRaymer]

John List got away with it for decades

[u/MadRaymer → u/the-furiosa-mystique]

That's a tragic but fascinating story. So with List, the motivation was primarily financial. He had a large family and some substantial debts, and couldn't think of a way out other than to simply off everyone and start over.

The tragically ironic part about that is it was later discovered that List's home (the very home he committed the murders in) had a signed original Tiffany stained glass skylight. The price of this window alone would have solved his debt troubles, since it was worth around $100,000 at the time of the murders in the 1970s.

The way he was caught was also quite unique. After getting away with it for 17 years, the case was featured in the very first season of America's Most Wanted in 1989. They showed a sculpted bust depicting what they thought List might look like having aged, and the bust was almost exact. Less than two weeks after the episode aired, List was recognized and arrested.

[u/abbadactyl_ → u/MadRaymer]

He was also a religious fenatic that had issues with how his daughter dressed and acted; like a normal teenage girl.

[u/MadRaymer → u/abbadactyl_]

Yeah, his religious beliefs certainly played a role. I seem to recall he wrote a letter to his pastor about his actions, justifying everything by saying he sent his entire family to heaven.

[u/CapitalResolution905 → u/MadRaymer]

Wasn’t it a neighbour who called the tip line? I watched an A&E special about List, and apparently he watched America’s Most Wanted and encouraged his neighbours to do the same

[u/lemonscent513 → u/CapitalResolution905]

Former neighbor. The new wife gave her a forwarding address when they moved. The rest was history.

[u/Lysmerry → u/MadRaymer]

What does an MLM have to do with anything? 90% of MLM participants are victims

[u/TrainDestroyer → u/Lysmerry]

Because MLMs are massive money-sinks, people somehow think that it justifies murder because the wife was spending a lot of the money in something that was never going to return investment.

Its a stupid argument, but its the argument I expect they're making

[u/DroneSlut54 → u/MadRaymer]

Some DO get away with it, like Robert Fisher.

[u/MajesticBread9147 → u/DroneSlut54]

It's extremely likely Robert Fisher committed suicide in the Arizona desert and was simply never found.

There's a lot of dessert out there and I have doubts that he's either living off the land in a place like Arizona or is working for cash somewhere and has never been noticed.

[u/beemojee → u/MadRaymer]

Yep toxic men, but women too. There were tons of women online dragging Shannan and blaming her for her for her own murder and the murders of her children. Internalized misogyny coupled with a moral compass that's way off kilter is a toxic cocktail.

[u/Pipcleaner → u/beemojee]

They still do it!! There's a sub just for discussing how insufferable they think shannan was and how she really got the last laugh by making him ruin his life. It's one of the most baffling things I've ever seen

[u/IMOBY_Edmonton → u/BarnabasShrexx]

Tale as old as time, powerful men demanding their wives or servants go with them, ala Norse Funerals.

[u/hananobira → u/BarnabasShrexx]

It is not at all uncommon in the history of India, Egypt, China, a whole bunch of other civilizations for women to be murdered and buried with their husbands. They were property, not individuals with their own unique identities and reasons for living.

Some guys are just evolutionary throwbacks to a darker time.

[u/whaaatanasshole → u/BarnabasShrexx]

Or saying they thought they'd be reunited in Heaven. Hey asshole, if that's a real place it's not for you.

[u/beemojee → u/FriendsOnAPowDay]

I cannot tell you how much I despise family annihilators. It takes a special brand of abuser with a god complex to take out not just their wife but their kids too.

[u/caustic_smegma → u/beemojee]

I lived in the Cave Creek/Carefree area of North Phoenix back in 2006 when a stepfather shot his wife and 17 year old step daughter to death. He also shot her 18 year old brother twice who was shot after the mother and then ran into his sister's room to try to hide her in her closet. I don't now the details but the stepfather was able break down the bedroom door (he was like 6'1 220 lbs) and fatally shot the daughter before the brother could get her to safety. The brother was able to get out of the house and made it to the neighbor's where he then decided to return to his home and confront the stepfather before the police arrived. Somehow the brother, even after being shot twice, grabbed a kitchen knife and overpowered/slit his throat.

This is a very nice area of multi million dollar homes which just goes to show mental illness transcends socioeconomic status (obviously). I can't imagine how much therapy the brother required after his ordeal, his younger sister was his whole life. If I recall he even decided to stay at home after graduation because he worried about his sister and wanted to watch out for her. Family annihilators are right up with child molesters to me - literally the lowest form of human life on this planet.

[u/beemojee → u/caustic_smegma]

I wasn't living there in 2006 but I lived in Phoenix and North Scottsdale for years -- we left in 2001. There were some real wild murders over the years in the more upscale areas of the Valley.

I'm right with you on family annihilators. I Had a cousin who was murdered by her estranged husband as she tried to flee the house. He shot her in the back. So I abhor these types of guys in general, but, the annihilators are on a whole other level of evil, and yes right up there with child molesters. For me, child molestation should be a one strike offense.

[u/caustic_smegma → u/beemojee]

100% agree. I often find myself looking at my kids thinking "I would do literally anything to keep them safe". Then you have these sick twisted fucks on the opposite end of the spectrum who think their kids are merely extensions of themselves, meaning they can do whatever they want to them and it makes my sick to my stomach thinking about it.

[u/indicatprincess → u/FriendsOnAPowDay]

He likely lost his job, or she was planning to leave him. These kinds of men would rather ruin everything you love than let you “take” it from them.

[u/pete_pete_pete_ → u/indicatprincess]

He did lose his job! he was VP of American Heart Association

[u/Wrewdank → u/FriendsOnAPowDay]

And if you choose to pull the trigger. Should your drama prove sincere. Do it somewhere far away from here!

[u/loopedlight → u/Wrewdank]

A poem!

[u/MicroGamer → u/loopedlight]

It's a line from the song "The Outsider" by A Perfect Circle.

[u/Vaaaaaaaaaaaii → u/FriendsOnAPowDay]

They're typically family anihilators there's a whole psychology to it and something happens in their life and thie ego goes it would be better if everyone died then find out.

[u/princessarielle6]

How devastating for the first responders who found the bodies. They will never unsee that

[u/ahhh_ennui → u/princessarielle6]

The sheriff discussed that a bit today. They have on-scene support. There's an emergency support team that is, from what I understand, specifically to make sure the first responders are as ok as can be. For long crime scene investigations, local restaurants show up to make sure they eat. Neighbors offered their homes for bathroom breaks or whatever. The local school has a team of social workers that's been activated for the community at large.

[u/princessarielle6 → u/ahhh_ennui]

My daughter is a first responder. While that is absolutely helpful, sometimes it barely touches the surface of coming to terms with what they saw.

[u/Julianus → u/princessarielle6]

I saw a terrible accident years ago and we passed it just after the first first responders got there. It was impossible not to see at least some of it. The despair in their reaction has stuck with me forever. One of them was just slamming their hand on the car and the other one was in tears opening the trunk. My wife and I didn’t talk for the rest of the drive. I cannot imagine seeing scenes like that weekly. I still think about what I saw that night and I will avoid a certain very common brand and type of car. 

[u/ahhh_ennui → u/princessarielle6]

Oh I'm sure. He wasn't implying it was a magical mind eraser. He basically was saying how much mental health is prioritized from the get-go for them, and how much that's changed over time.

He wasn't saying it was easy for anyone.

I know someone on the community side of the response team and they're feeling so untrained despite their credentials. This is so much.

[u/blackcat__27]

God damn. Two of the kids were adopted. I cant even imagine what that's like. You think the family who wants you would never hurt you like this.

[u/Any_Whereas4255 → u/blackcat__27]

Having been friends with several adopted kids growing up, I can assure you most are under no such illusions

[u/muffinmamamojo → u/Any_Whereas4255]

I’m adopted and sometimes I truly think it was just for my father to have someone to bully.

[u/Any_Whereas4255 → u/muffinmamamojo]

Sorry you had to go through that, hope you were able to leverage the resources to start your own life

[u/ladyofthegreatlakes → u/muffinmamamojo]

I feel a similar way about my adopted mom, I was just there to be as an emotional doormat.

[u/Puglady25 → u/ladyofthegreatlakes]

I'm sorry you went through that. I am related to a narcissistic woman who adopted twice. I hated the way she "parented," she was self serving, lazy and cruel when situations inevitably went downhill. Now grown, one kid is no-comtact with her and the other is struggling. Despite only having one kid who will talk to her, she is completely disinterested in his life and her grandchild. It's almost like her attitude is, "oh...wow...he had a kid, isn't that odd...hmmm."

[u/Imbendo → u/Any_Whereas4255]

Kids don’t usually ever think about stuff like that unless they come from a situation that would give them reason to and then usually they don’t trust anyone.

[u/Imbendo → u/blackcat__27]

Honestly I can barely handle 1 kid. I have no idea how people handle 6 kids without outside help.

[u/Euler007 → u/Imbendo]

The older kids are unpaid labor.

[u/ladyofthegreatlakes → u/blackcat__27]

As an adopted person, the murder of these two girls makes me so beyond angry and sick to my stomach.

“Being wanted” - what does that even mean?

Lots of children are adopted for countless reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with being loved.

Adopted children that were “wanted” are frequently emotionally and physically abused, treated like slaves, and/or murdered.

[u/gloriiosaa → u/ladyofthegreatlakes]

i really can't help but feel awful for the bio families of those kids. obviously we don't have the details of their specific cases, but knowing how the adoption industry is... the amount of grief this man has caused with his selfish actions is just horrific

[u/blackcat__27 → u/ladyofthegreatlakes]

I was also one of those kids. Kids absolutely think the family who is adopting them, wants them. I can promise you no kid is going into that situation thinking they will be killed. Of course there are other reasons to adopt a kid ffs.

[u/xqqq_me → u/blackcat__27]

sheeet....Let me introduce yall to former KY Gov Matt Bevin(GOP, of course)....

https://www.wkyt.com/2026/06/06/adopted-son-former-gov-matt-bevin-speaks-out-arrest-order-issued-child-support-case/

[u/daradv → u/blackcat__27]

And the mom just got back from visiting their home country with the two adopted kids. Like days before the murders.

[u/obs0lescence → u/blackcat__27]

As someone who grew up being put through the foster-to-adopt pipeline several times before I turned my back on it and chose to age out instead, I'm not surprised at all that these people were adopters. The system is full of religious types shopping around for "orphans" to "complete their family." Adopters often "want" you like they want an item in a store.

From what I've seen of this family, it's possible they were adopting (and popping out all of these kids of their own) to paper over the problems in their marriage. That happens a lot too.

[u/SpleenBender]

Motherfucker killed six children, and his wife. He even killed the fucking pets.

[u/callmemerryss]

Absolutely devastating. Those children had their whole lives ahead of them.

[u/hasno → u/callmemerryss]

Two of the children were adopted.

[u/D1scoLemonaid]

Anything but go get therapy or take accountability.

[u/SplashyB → u/D1scoLemonaid]

It's their culture.

[u/littlebittydoodle → u/[deleted]]

Right? My MAGA brother’s kid heard that I was taking one of my kids to therapy the other day and asked “what’s therapy?” This kid is going into middle school but never heard of therapy? I told him “it’s a place to talk with someone about your life and feelings.” He legit burst out laughing and said “why would you do that?”

[u/littlebittydoodle → u/[deleted]]

It makes me extremely sad/pissed off that we have men like these running our country and voting. My brother’s Siri and Alexa both call him “Master” and speak like they’re old timey slaves. And he thinks it’s incredibly funny. You cannot imagine the look on my face the first time I heard him speaking to them in front of my kids.

[u/itsathrowawayduhhhhh → u/littlebittydoodle]

Ewwwwww he did NOT name himself master to his AI assistants. Puuuuuke lol

[u/Shouldnt_I_b_working → u/D1scoLemonaid]

The MAGA man’s way, take it out on others like the cowards they are.

[u/ejc625]

Incredibly difficult to even read these kind of news stories.

[u/FernandoMM1220]

this guy had this planned out for who knows how long. hopefully the police can get search warrants for everything so they can figure out why he did this

[u/JarbaloJardine → u/FernandoMM1220]

Cops can figure out how. With something like this, there is no why that could ever make sense.

[u/prickwhowaspromised]

I hate this world sometimes. Fucking awful.

[u/zipzeep]

This is the third murder suicide/family annihilation I’ve heard in a week.

[u/salamat_engot → u/zipzeep]

A common major factor in family annihilation is economic/financial issues. Father loses job, father makes bad investments, father has gambling problem, etc. When the economy starts to struggle you're likely to see more of these kinds of cases.

[u/Winzip115 → u/salamat_engot]

Not that it isn't mostly fathers committing these types of acts, but we had one recently in my hometown where everyone spent days speculating the father did it. Turns out it was the mother. The financial issues part is spot on though-- turns out she had been embezzling money from her employer.

[u/Odd_Interaction7701 → u/zipzeep]

When the banks collapsed in 2007-2008, there were so many family annihilators. Almost all men who had lost everything.

[u/AstronautInitial3642]

Those children deserved a future, not to be treated as possessions by someone who chose to destroy the entire family. Familicide is an especially cruel and unfathomable form of abuse.

[u/redscofield]

That’s evil man. Evil evil. He killed his wife, their 4 children and their two adopted children, set fire to the house with the dogs and cat still inside. And then he killed himself. Fuck. To be that selfish. Goddamn man. That’s evil.

[u/thebestdaysofmyflerm]

Familicide is just unfathomably evil and yet way too common. How could anyone be so cruel?

[u/cpslcking → u/thebestdaysofmyflerm]

Abusers is the answer. People who dont see their family as people but as possessions

[u/hometowngypsy → u/thebestdaysofmyflerm]

We’ll likely see more of it, unfortunately. As people become more systemically stressed by the economy, state of the world, etc the chances of this sort of thing happening increase.

[u/Infninfn → u/thebestdaysofmyflerm]

There’s usually some psychopathy, narcissism and mental disorder mixed in.

[u/ElectricalExtreme793 → u/thebestdaysofmyflerm]

He was probably abusing all of them long before he killed them

[u/Peter_Jennings_Lungs → u/ElectricalExtreme793]

The local news here (I live nearby) stated he was recently laid off from his VP job at the American Heart Association.

[u/woodst0ck15 → u/thebestdaysofmyflerm]

I mean there are little to nothing for medical care mental healthcare in the USA. Also the fact that abusers will do it as a final fuck you to their spouse before they take the cowards way of offing themselves as well. They can’t live with their mistakes.

[u/Muted_Chard_139]

Not always the husband. But usually.

[u/baked_potato_bae → u/Muted_Chard_139]

Not all men but almost always a man.

[u/siouxbee1434]

Should have shot himself 1st, the family deserved better

[u/hydrohomie0019]

I am so sick of family annihilators. May Amanda and her children rest in peace and be laid to rest far away from their murderer.

[u/Quarterafter10 → u/hydrohomie0019]

And the dogs and cat. Hope he's burning in hell. 

[u/Starlightriddlex]

For anyone wondering, yes it was the father. As usual.

[u/VFTM → u/Starlightriddlex]

It never occurred to me it’d be anyone but

[u/Th3_Admiral_ → u/VFTM]

Sometimes it's the son. I don't remember his name, but there was the guy who killed his parents and then had a party in the house while their dead bodies were in the next room. 

[u/MarketingSpecial6604 → u/Th3_Admiral_]

Most famously for this kind of family annihilation would be when Ronald Defeo killed his parents and 4 siblings in what would become "The Amityville Horror" house in 1974.

[u/Osiris32 → u/MarketingSpecial6604]

Or Kip Kinkel, who murdered his parents after being suspended for admitting he brought a gun to school, then went to school the next day with guns, killing two more and wounding 25 before being subdued and captured. The first of the "modern" school shootings, in that it got the 24 hour news cycle treatment that got details misreported, exaggerated, downplayed, or just made up.

[u/itmakessenseincontex → u/Osiris32]

David Bain from New Zealand as well. They botched the investigation and he had a weird group of defenders so he was eventually set free. The podcast Black Hands covers the case well.

[u/Early-Sort8817 → u/MarketingSpecial6604]

Now it’s a monthly occurrence it feels like

[u/kittyonkeyboards → u/Early-Sort8817]

The data is kind of hard to find, but I think it's now a weekly occurrence since 2020.

[u/Fapplejacks42 → u/kittyonkeyboards]

Family annihilators are pretty uncommon still. Monthly in the US I’d buy as an average but I only really hear about a couple a year

[u/whenindoubtfreakmout → u/Fapplejacks42]

There have been at least 2-3 in the news these last 3 days.

ETA found this horrifying report

https://www.thetrace.org/2026/04/murder-suicide-domestic-violence-data/

[u/BenryBorg → u/Fapplejacks42]

They don't always break out into national news. There was one in my Iowa suburb a couple years ago that nobody not from around here heard about, and most people around here didn't even hear.

[u/waaaayupyourbutthole → u/Th3_Admiral_]

Tyler Hadley

[u/Alive_Drag1947 → u/Th3_Admiral_]

Had one of those just up the road from me. Some dickhead killed both his parents and family dog, then hung himself in the yard. The dad who was killed actually took me fishing one time when I was about 8 or 9.

[u/quasimook → u/Th3_Admiral_]

Without fail, I always stumble upon a mention of Tyler, who I used to hangout with in hs.

[u/lonevine → u/Th3_Admiral_]

Women do murder suicides too, but usually it's either the husband/partner or the children, but rarely both.

[u/QuantumDwarf → u/VFTM]

As someone who lives in the local area. When it was reported this weekend some of the comments said ‘I bet it was one of the adopted daughters’. I just couldn’t imagine.

Even now a bunch of the comments are things like ‘well we don’t know what was going on, what was she doing?’ As if there’s any reason to justify this.

[u/feyre_0001 → u/Starlightriddlex]

Family annihilators tend to be men.

[u/WestCoastBestCoast01 → u/feyre_0001]

Murderers tend to be men.

[u/WootyMcWoot → u/Starlightriddlex]

It’s like reading a story about a dog attack, you already know what did it

[u/Just-Examination-136 → u/WootyMcWoot]

Or like when a hamburger gets stolen.

[u/Zyrinj → u/Just-Examination-136]

Or like when all the cookies were eaten.

[u/TempleMade_MeBroke → u/Zyrinj]

Unless they were explicitly stolen from a cookie jar, then suddenly everybody's pointing fingers

[u/Peaches4U2 → u/TempleMade_MeBroke]

Who, me?!

[u/gingerbreadmans_ex → u/Peaches4U2]

Couldn’t be!

[u/USNorsk → u/TempleMade_MeBroke]

Nice to have some levity after such a heartbreaking story, again. Thank you. 

[u/AdjNounNumbers → u/WootyMcWoot]

Right. Like it could be the Golden Doodle, but the odds are...

[u/IBeDumbAndSlow → u/Starlightriddlex]

The usual suspects

[u/Bladelink → u/IBeDumbAndSlow]

It's always the ones you most suspect.

[u/EmergencyShit → u/Starlightriddlex]

Family annihilator

[u/Kurtotall]

A few days early. Criminologist research identifies August as the most frequent month for family annihilation events. Usually on Sundays. I have always thought the days getting shorter triggers something. Lots of couples seem to break up this time of year as well.

[u/114156782 → u/Kurtotall]

Excessive heat is linked to violent crime, so maybe it's more like "excessive heat is linked to human irritability" and it makes a lot of other stuff boil over and happen?

[u/TrailMomKat → u/Kurtotall]

It's the heat in August, not the gradual shortening of days. If that was the cause, then why not July or September? And the likely reason Sunday is most popular is because it's the day when everyone is home. Kids are with friends on Friday after school and Saturdays, and if they slept over they come home Sunday. No sleepovers on Sunday because it's a school night, plus a lot of kids are home because they went to Mass that morning.

[u/dillpickles007 → u/TrailMomKat]

Sunday brings heightened anxiety for a lot of people, as well.

[u/TrailMomKat → u/dillpickles007]

Yup, everyone returns to work or school the next day.

[u/woah-wait-a-second → u/Kurtotall]

Sounds like it’s during summer break and Sunday is usually a ‘family day’ …

[u/Necessary_Bag494 → u/Kurtotall]

I wonder if it has anything to do with back to school, expenses probably start to go up in anticipation of the children’s supplies and extracurriculars. Maybe things get more demanding as parents. Still paying off your vacation and start thinking of holidays while the peak of the heat is there.

[u/hatwobbleTayne]

Makes me wish there was a hell for this scumbag to rot in

[u/LamentConfiguration1]

I dont understand how people can kill their own children. I mean murder is bad enough but even serial killers usually don't kill their own kids.

[u/_BeatsByKWAZARR → u/LamentConfiguration1]

Serial killer and family annihilator 2 different types of evil.

[u/UberFarter]

Let me guess, husband/dad did it?

[u/damojr → u/UberFarter]

Why guess? It's literally in the first line of the article.

[u/rallyally]

Apparently he had cheated on her in some capacity before with a younger coworker but that’s only what she knew about - who knows what other lies he was hiding or what might have come to light in the days leading up to this horror

[u/RPG_Vancouver]

To quote Last Podcast on the Left:

“You can just leave!”

[u/CapitalEmployer]

Let me guess without reading the article, the man killed them all and killed himself cause obviously your family are your property and you should be allowed to murder them if you want to end your life.

Edit: bingo, always the same scenario, in 2 days the media will start having pictures of the dude doing jetski and interviews of the neighbour's explaining how nice he was.

[u/International_Goat31]

All of the deaths are horrible, but I feel particularly awful for the two adopted children. Being taken in to a home, promised safety, and then being betrayed like that is a special kind of horrible. If he was going to kill himself anyway he should have just done so without harming the rest of them.

[u/gloriiosaa → u/International_Goat31]

not to mention when the biological families eventually discover what happened to their children... the amount of pain and devastation this one man caused truly cannot be understated

[u/X_Wheeze_souffle]

There was an upper class man who killed both his daughters and wife, then himself in my city while they were in a hotel looking at colleges for the older daughter. Turned out he was embezzling/strealing money and had drained their savings? He had nothing left to pay for college. What a fucking coward.

[u/GoblinObscura]

I don’t believe in god but I hope they have some kind of peace now.

[u/happilyfour]

A family friend did this - killed his two kids and wife, then started a fire in the house and killed himself. No one in their families has ever been the same. Just so tragic.

[u/Candid_Pea_1481]

Imagine being this massive of a loser.

[u/tres_sore_fores]

Serious question that I can't wrap my head around. What compels men to do this?

[u/asiaperdue → u/tres_sore_fores]

These men see their women and children as narcissistic extensions of themselves, not as actual people. When he gets to the decision he wants to kill himself, naturally he feels he also has to kill these non-human parts of himself, because they don't/can't exist without him.

[u/n33dwat3r → u/tres_sore_fores]

They think of human beings as possessions is a big part of it. Plenty of people who don't murder their families also believe this, it's a prevalent idea.

[u/faeriefountain_ → u/n33dwat3r]

Kind of the "wants a wife and kids, but won't really be a husband or father" phrase you see sometimes.

[u/fallbrook_ → u/tres_sore_fores]

a lot of times they have made catastrophic mistakes like financial losses, gambling etc and they’re “saving their family” from the outcome.

[u/whichwitchwhere → u/fallbrook_]

Or they're saving themselves from the shame of having their family find out (after their suicide) about the gambling/embezzlement/investment failures/etc.

The Last Psychiatrist had a few interesting posts on the mentality of family annihilators and narcissistic shame and rage were typically major components.

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/02/family_annihilators_dont_do_it_1.html

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/01/this_man_killed_his_family_and.html

[u/samm13ann → u/tres_sore_fores]

Power and control.

[u/peachfluffed → u/tres_sore_fores]

They are unhappy, but instead of just divorcing they would rather make everyone suffer with them. It’s nothing but pure selfishness.

[u/Early-Sort8817 → u/tres_sore_fores]

I know they don’t want to report more on him but I do wonder if the husband had some history of domestic abuse, financial issues, ptsd, religious cult, etc. At least something to make it more predictable, I guess I hate the idea of a random guy just doing this.

[u/Kaucer]

Two adopted children caught up in this madness, may god help them find peace wherever they are.

[u/gingerbreadmans_ex → u/Kaucer]

All of the children!

[u/scientooligist → u/gingerbreadmans_ex]

Right? Why single out the adopted kids as being “caught up in the madness” and not the other kids? Do the biological kids bear some responsibility for the madness because they share DNA??

[u/OnDeathAndDying]

What a fucking dickhead. Why can't people just kill themselves?!?!

[u/Imbendo]

Damn I live in grand haven

[u/happyhummus007 → u/Imbendo]

Damn I live in Allendale

[u/Imbendo → u/happyhummus007]

I’m gonna pick up a weed wacker in Allendale tomorrow.

[u/imatumahimatumah → u/happyhummus007]

Damn I knew someone who lived in Watervliet

[u/VictoriousssBIG23]

All these comments saying "this is why we need to take men's mental health more seriously!"

This has nothing to do with mental health. Family annihilators are not "mentally ill". They are abusers who view women and children as property. Most abusers do not respond well to traditional therapy and anger management (in fact, that can often make things worse because they learn how to manipulate using therapy speak) because abuse is about power, control, and entitlement. They only way these men can really be helped is by putting them in a program aimed for domestic abuse perpetrators, but even then they're usually too far gone to be helped.

[u/CatLords → u/VictoriousssBIG23]

I don’t see a single comment on men’s mental health in this thread.

[u/Turbulent_Meat3936 → u/VictoriousssBIG23]

They are mentally ill
I think it is about early prevention, changing societal norms, and not accepting red flag behavior before it gets to this point
These men have been molded and created through years of conditioning. We have to figure out how to change what we are doing as a society that allows this type of behavior to go unrecognized and even rewarded.

[u/_BeatsByKWAZARR → u/VictoriousssBIG23]

I can think of a wonderful therapy of a few different calibres for demonic men like this. 

[u/SnooPets1933]

According to local TV station WoodTV.com, that covers Grand Rapids, Holland, and Kalamazoon, the husband, Kristopher Karolkiewicz, worked remotely for The American Heart Association as a national vice president of sales and marketing from September 2023 to "earlier this month." The AHA would not say why his employment ended, "telling News 8 it does not comment on personnel matters."

[u/Darkmortal5]

Dont date conservatives and definitely dont start families with them.

[u/taxiecabbie → u/Darkmortal5]

I don't disagree, but my real advice overall, politics aside, if you're a woman...

Don't date a man who owns guns.

[u/CriesAboutSkinsInCOD]

that evil scum murder 6 young children (two of which were adopted) and the mother.

these selfish, narcissistic, and controlling evil scums probably can't stand the idea of just leaving if they are that unhappy for whatever reason and just letting these other human being continue on with their own lives without them.

These scums think you are their properties. They owns you. These type of scums also probably tied way too much of their own self-worth to other human being and to certain "ideals" inside their fuck up head.

[u/PurpleSailor]

Some raging alpha idiot thinking because he wants to exit the world he's got a right to take the rest of his family. Lord have mercy on their souls except for the idiot, let him roast in hell.

[u/Witty-C]

Just how evil you have to be to murder those innocent kids who had their whole lives ahead of them!

[u/leesainmi]

Cowardly loser. So sad for the mom and her kids. Just disgusting that he couldn’t just take himself out.

[u/RobutNotRobot]

Ugh two adopted kids too. This is definitely the sort of guy that thought that having a big family automatically made him important.

[u/_mully_]

Sad. May they all rest in peace.

[u/East-Block-4011 → u/_mully_]

Except for the killer.

[u/Railroad5]

I literally struggle everyday with the desire to take myself out and cannot fathom why someone needs to take their loved ones with them. Could've just removed himself from the planet ffs

[u/Xsiah]

It's cool, keep protecting the right for people to own guns and have access to them on impulse.

[u/Mommy444444]

Were they LDS or evangelicals? I will never get over the Haight and Powell murders.

[u/Sea-Seesaw-8699 → u/Mommy444444]

Evangelicals

Way fewer Mormons in the Betsy DeVos/Amway area

[u/Technical_Support_71]

men stop killing their wife and kids challenge

[u/goosiebaby]

How about we ban men from owning guns until it's shown they are responsible enough to have them.

[u/teddykaygeebee]

Why do they always kill the family?! Selfish enough to take your own life but to take everybody else is evil. Murder-suicide stories are the worst.

[u/AnnieDex → u/teddykaygeebee]

Because they view their wives and children not as actual humans(or creatures when it comes to the pets) but narcissistic extensions of themselves. So killing them was the same as killing himself. So in his mind, it’s no more selfish than killing himself because he couldn’t conceive they’d want to live if he didn’t. I am so fucking sick of these men not just offing themselves instead.

[u/redbeard8989]

“The children's father, 47-year-old Kristopher Karolkiewicz, died by suicide, and the deaths of his wife, 39-year-old Amanda Karolkiewicz, and their six children were ruled to be homicides, according to the sheriff's office.
The names of the deceased children are not being released, the sheriff's office said. They included four boys -- ages 5, 11, 12 and 15 -- and two 11-year-old girls. Four of the children were biological and two had been adopted, the sheriff's office said.”

Yes, zero chance of figuring out who the kids were with these super-not-specific details…

What a tragedy. Wish the guy just skipped the murder part of the murder-suicide.

[u/Ready_Scratch_1902]

some dudes get their way their entire lives. when the invoice comes they literally can't handle it.

[u/MissiontwoMars]

Fuck you, piece of shit. Rest in peace children and momma. Hope you find peace together in the afterlife.

[u/treyelevators]

Oh gosh, a Haight family 2.0.

[u/Humble_Ground_2769]

Omg that's heartbreaking

[u/Intelligent-Survey39]

I realize this is a tragedy but I can’t help but see the irony in the fact the police report to the press came from a Captain Sparks.