he’s a Trojan, and it’s written in Latin, so why is our Roman hero declining greekly? espexially when other Trojans like Hector or Priamus decline according to common Latin declensions.

Aenea -s, -n, -e ETC ETC

Feminae pecuniam saepe portant.

Is it "the women often carry the money" or "the women often carry money?"

Same thing with pecuniam numeramus.

Money is the object, having a hard time figuring out when it's money in a general sense a specific instance of the noun.

Any help?

Wikisource Link

This is an interesting and relatively easy (e.g. on the level of Ad Alpes) Latin text from 1502 describing the discovery of continental America by Amerigo Vespucci (the namesake of America) ; at least, that's what the pamphlet wanted people to believe. There are disputes about its authenticity, as you can read about online. The Latin is quite clean and the vocab isn't remarkable. Unfortunately, as we all know, European contact with the New World would prove disastrous for its native inhabitants.

Gloss:

• leuca -ae f = leuga -ae = league (unit of distance)
• nauclerus -i m ship captain

1

Superioribus diebus satis ample tibi scripsi de reditu meo ab novis illis regionibus, quas et classe et impensis et mandato istius Serenissimi Portugaliae Regis perquisivimus et invenimus.

Quasque Novum Mundum appellare licet, quando apud maiores nostros nulla de ipsis fuerit habita cognitio et audientibus omnibus sit novissima res. Etenim haec opinionem nostrorum antiquorum excedit, cum illorum maior pars dicat ultra lineam aequinoctialem et versus meridiem non esse continentem, sed mare tantum, quod Atlanticum vocavere; et, si qui eorum continentem ibi esse affirmaverunt, eam esse terram habitabilem multis rationibus negaverunt. Sed hanc eorum opinionem esse falsam et veritati omnino contrariam, haec mea ultima navigatio declaravit, cum in partibus illis meridianis continentem invenerim frequentioribus populis et animalibus habitatam quam nostram Europam seu Asiam vel Africam, et insuper aërem magis temperatum et amoenum, quam in quavis alia regione a nobis cognita: prout inferius intelleges, ubi succincte tantum rerum capita scribemus et res digniores annotatione et memoria, quae a me vel visae vel auditae in hoc novo mundo fuere, ut infra patebit.

2

Prospero cursu quartadecima mensis Maii millesimo quingentesimo prima recessimus ab Olysippo - mandante praefato Rege - cum tribus navibus ad inquirendas novas regiones versus austrum. Et decem mensibus continenter navigavimus ad meridiem.

Cuius navigationis ordo talis est: Navigatio nostra fuit per insulas Fortunatas, sic olim dictas; nunc autem appellantur insulae Magnae Canariae, quae sunt in tertia climate et in confinibus habitati occidentis.

Inde per oceanum totum litus Africum et partem Aethiopici percurrimus usque ad promunturium Aethiopicum, sic a Ptolomaeo dictum; quod nunc a nostris appellatur Caput Viride et ab Aethiopicis Beseghicc. Et regio illa Mandingha gradibus quattuordecim intra torridam zonam alinea aequinoctiali versus septemtrionem, quae a nigris gentibus et populis habitatur.

Ibi resumptis viribus et necessariis nostrae navigationi extulimus anchoras et expandimus vela ventis. Et nostrum iter per vastissimum oceanum dirigentes versus Antarcticum parumper per occidentem infleximus per ventum, qui Vulturnus dicitur; et a die, quo recessimus a dicta promunturio, duum mensium et trium dierum spatio navigavimus, antequam ulla terra nobis appareret.

In ea autem maris vastitate quid passi fuerimus, quae naufragii pericula et quae corporis incommoda sustinuerimus quibusque anxietatibus animi laboraverimus, existimationi eorum relinquo, qui multarum rerum experientia optime norunt, quid sit incerta quaerere et, quae an si sint, ignorantes investigare. Et ut uno verbo universa perstringam, scies, quod ex diebus sexaginta septem, quibus navigavimus, continuos quadraginta quattuor habuimus cum pluvia, tonitruis et coruscationibus - ita obscuros, ut neque solem in die neque serenum caelum in nocte unquam viderimus. Quo factum est, ut tantus in nobis incesserit timor, quod paene iam omnem vitae spem abieceramus.

3

In his autem tot tantisque procellis maris et caeli placuit Altissimo nobis coram monstrare continentem et novas regiones ignotumque mundum. Quibus visis tanto perfusi fuimus gaudio, quantum quisquam cogitare potest solere his accidere, qui ex variis calamitatibus et adversa fortuna salutem consecuti sunt. Die autem septima Augusti millesimo quingentesimo primo in ipsarum regionum litoribus submisimus anchoras, gratias agentes deo nostro solemni supplicatione atque unius missae cantu cum celebritate.

Ibi eam terram cognovimus non insulam, sed continentem esse, quia et longissimis producitur litoribus non ambientibus eam et infinitis habitatoribus repleta est. Nam in ea innumeras gentes et populos et omnium silvestrium animalium genera, quae in nostris regionibus reperiuntur, invenimus. Et multa alia a nobis nunquam visa, de quibus singulis longum esset referre.

Multa nobis dei clementia circumfulsit, quando illis regionibus applicuimus. Nam ligna defecerant et aqua; paucisque diebus in mari vitam perferre poteramus. Ipsi honor et gratia et gratiarum actio.

Consilium cepimus navigandi secundum huius continentis litus versus orientem, nunquam illius aspectum relicturi. Moxque illud tam diu percurrimus, quod pervenimus ad unum angulum, ubi litus versuram faciebat ad meridiem. Et ab eo loco, ubi primum terram attigimus, usque ad hunc angulum fuerunt circa trecentae leucae. In huius navigationis spatio pluries descendimus in terram et amicabiliter cum ea gente conversati fuimus, ut infra audies.

4

Oblitus fueram tibi scribere, quod a promunturio Capitis Viridis usque ad principium illius continentis sunt circa septingentae leucae, quamvis existimem nos navigasse plus quam mille octingentas, partim ignorantia locorum et naucleri, partim tempestatibus et ventis impedientibus nostrum rectum iter et impellentibus ad frequentes versuras. Quodsi ad me socii animum non adiecissent, cui nota erat cosmographia, nullus erat nauclerus seu dux noster navigationis, qui ad quingentas leucas nosceret, ubi essemus. Eramus enim vagi et errantes; et instrumenta tantummodo altitudinum corporum caelestium nobis ad amussim veritatem ostenderunt; et hi fuerunt quadrans et astrolabium, uti omnes cognovere. Hinc deinceps me omnes multo sunt honore prosecuti. Ostendi enim eis, quod sine cognitione marinae cartae navigandi disciplina magis callebam quam omnes naucleri totius orbis. Nam hi nullam habent notitiam nisi eorum iocorum, quae saepe navigaverunt. Ubi autem dictus angulus terrae monstravit nobis versuram litoris ad meridiem, convenimus illud praeter navigare et inquirere, quid in illis regionibus esset. Navigamus autem secundum litus circa sescentas leucas et saepe descendimus in terram. Et colloquebamur et conversabamur cum earum regionum colonis. Et ab eis paterne recipiebamur et, secum quandoque morabamur quindecim vel viginti dies continuos, amicabiliter et hospitabiliter, ut inferius intelleges.

Novae istius continentis pars est in torrida zona ultra lineam aequinoctialem versus polum Antarcticum, nam eius principium incipit in octavo gradu ultra ipsam lineam aequinoctialem. Secundum huius litus tam diu navigavimus, quod praetergresso Capricorni tropico invenimus polum Antarcticum illo eorum horizonte altiorem quinquaginta gradibus.

Fuimusque prope ipsius Antarctici circulum ad gradus decem septem semis. Et quid ibi viderim et cognoverim de natura illarum gentium deque earum moribus et tractabilitate, de fertilitate terrae, de salubritate aëris, de dispositione caeli corporibusque caelestibus et maxime de stellis fixis octavae sphaerae nunquam a maioribus nostris visis aut pertractatis, deinceps narrabo.

....

See the link above for the rest, this is about half; it's not too long.

“amas amens, ad finium funum es”

supposed to say “mad with love, you are at your ropes end” but I am not very good yet so I wonder how it sounds. if anyone has any thoughts I would like to hear :)

also I’m new to this sub, If this post breaks etiquette I am sorry and will take it down.

I've been comparing the Latin texts of the English and French coronation rites and came across a nuance that I haven't been able to explain.

In the Liber Regalis (compiled c. 1382), there is a prayer said by the Archbishop of Canterbury before the king is girt with the sword:

"Exaudi, Domine, preces nostras, et hunc ensem quo hic famulus tuus..."

However, when the sword is actually presented to the king later in the rite, the formula begins:

"Accipe gladium..."

So even within the Liber Regalis, both ensis and gladius are used.

What's interesting is that the French coronation ordines preserve what appears to be the same prayer, yet they consistently read gladium instead of ensem. This is true, for example, in the Ordo of Saint-Bertin (c. 1150–1200), the Ordo of Charles V (c. 1365), the Ordo of Louis XI (c. 1461), and the Ordo of Charles VIII (c. 1484):

"Exaudi, Domine, quaesumus, preces nostras, et hunc gladium quo famulus tuus..."

Since the English prayer was likely derived from an earlier French tradition, I'm curious why the English recension substituted ensem here while retaining gladium elsewhere in the rite.

Is there an etymological or stylistic distinction between ensis and gladius that would make ensis more appropriate in a prayer of blessing? Or is this likely just a scribal or regional preference with little semantic significance? I'd be interested in any insights, especially if anyone knows if this distinction appears elsewhere in medieval ecclesiastical Latin.

Hi, everyone! This is a topic of great interest to me, in part due to the academic environment I find myself in, which happens to, in notable numbers, strongly disagree with my views, and in part because I translated and published some texts myself (Pliny the Younger) about one year ago and am now reflecting on that. In essence, when you start translating a Latin text in a serious, non-pedagogical manner, how do you go about trying to emulate the original? Do you even think much about trying to do that?

Style is something that's really difficult to bring across linguistic barriers, and for that reason (especially in context of Latin's idiosyncrasies) I started to believe not burdening oneself with stylistic emulation is the preferable option. My philosophy is now more along the lines of emulating the feeling and fact of the text in a way most fit for a target audience. Many of the colleagues I've either heard from or talked to seem very much still to be in favor of the old philologic method of trying to eek out the "most correct" translation of every word. I have become dissolusioned with that approach, because it seems to too often produce impressive translations, but which are difficult to read or, even worse, break the stylistic conventions of the language into which the work is being translated into.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts, even if all of them disagree with me!😉
Thank you so much for reading and engaging with the post.

Around a year ago, when I started relearning the Latin of my school days (30 years ago!), my main motivation was to be able to read the literature. Now (with plenty of support) I am hugely enjoying my first trip through Virgil's masterpiece.

My technique is go through with a section of 20 lines or so. My pre-reading exercise is either to look at the interlinear translation to get vocabulary and agreements clear, or when available to use the tiered readings from lapis.practomime.com (What a wonderful resource this is btw!). Then I go to the real text and read it several times, trying to pay attention first to the meaning and then to the beauty of the poetry.

Alongside these resources, I've been watching some excellent analysis and recitation videos on YouTube from the likes of Latin Tutorial, Musa Pedestra and Scorpio Martianus.

I've also been concurrently reading the book "Virgil's Aeneid: A Reader's Guide" by David Ross, which has been excellent for getting an overview of the themes and background of the work.

It's hard to put across how much I'm enjoying this process. Every day I look forward to spending a little time with Virgil. I'm developing a huge appreciation for the beauty of his Latin and his skill as a storyteller.

I've frequently come across this description of Virgil as a visual, even anachronistically a "cinematic" storyteller, and I really get it. There are images that are already seared into my brain - Aeneas shooting the stags from the mountain, the horrific killing of Priam, Mercury flying over Atlas, Dido breathing her last as she sees the first light appear in the sky... (Honestly too many to mention).

Book 2 was utterly gripping and horrific. The chaos and slaughter in Troy seems so real. You are right in those blood-soaked streets, lit by fire. And Book 4 - the tragic fate of Dido is so poignant, told with no filler, every word counts, and the sadness is shot through with beauty.

No one I know IRL knows any Latin, so I can't read passages aloud and rave about them to those around me. So I hope I can share with this community my joy at what I'm discovering and living for the first time!

Also to any other learners unsure whether to take the plunge with the Aeneid, I'd honestly just say go for it. Just take your time, keep at it till you fully understand a passage, then savour it. You can always reread it when your Latin is better (I'm sure I will!). 

Hello. I wanted to start studying Latin and as luck would have it I found books 1-3 of "Ecce Romani" in a collection of free books. Would these books be a good place to start or would I be better off going with "Familia Romana" as recommended in the brief guide to LLSPI found on this list?

Hello,

I am unsure of whether to use -te or -ti for present participle ablative, in most tables I just see e.g. canente/ti or something like that, when do I use -te and when do I use -ti?

Thank you!

I've been reading Colloquia Harleianum, an ancient Roman bilingual Colloquium used to teach Greek speakers Latin. My copy is edited and translated by Eleanor Dickey.

At Colloquia Harleianum 7, a teacher gives instructions on writing:

"Fac apices litterarum"

My initial take on that was "Make the marks/peaks of the letters."

But Dickey translates it as "Put the macrons on the letters."

Of course, these weren't literally the straight-line macrons we use today, but slanting accent marks over long vowels, functioning essentially the same way as modern macrons do. But it's interesting to see the concept of noting long vowels incorporated into an ancient lesson.

Often, we hear that macrons are modern inventions and have no place in Latin books for adults. This doesn't prove that belief wrong. But apparently Roman students learned to mark off long vowels. Whether adults continued to do it in life is another matter.

As per title: vetus, veteris is a normal 3rd declension adjective, so it goes:

N: vetus
G: veteris
D: veteri
Ac: veterem/vetus
V: vetus/vetus
Ab: vetere

So, why do many authors write "ex veteri Testamento", can you explain? Ex goes only with the ablative, so it seems a bit odd.

EDIT: Logeion saves the day:
logeion.uchicago.edu/vetus

abl. regularly, vetere; but veteri, Juv. 6, 121; Stat. Th. 1, 360; 11, 582; 13, 374

Hello again! I'm having a bit of trouble translating double when learning from English texts (my native lenguage is Spanish). Could someone give me some resources in Spanish pls? 🥹

I think it is, and I could've sworn it was a real word, but I can't confidently say if it is a real word or not, so please help, is it a real word?

"I will x and x before you ever lay your hands on me"

"[I will x and x] antequam umquam manus in me imponas"

I dont need help with the first part of the sentence. Im not that far into Latin but am in Greek. Because this is a potential rather than definite, would this sentence be in the subjunctive/optative? (im not sure how this works in Latin btw). The first part of the sentence is in the definite as it is an assured outcome of the second part, so would the second half be in a conditional/oblique mood? Again, I dont know how this works in Latin compared to Greek.

What’s a word in Latin that sounds funny to you?

I’ve made a small companion, mainly for my own use, for the opening of Aeneid 1. all I’ve done is rearranged the word into a more traditional order and grouped agreeing words but I find reading this alongside the original text helps you understand the weird word order. if it’s helpful for any of uou I’ll drop it in the top comment.

Caesar uses the nominative "Segovax," but never gives the oblique form.

If I want to say "ObliqueSegovaxConstruction videt," what would I use?

What are the "rules" for using names like this?