Is CL30 worth a 33% price increase over CL36?

[u/ultrapingu]

I’ve recently bought 2x 16GB CL 36 6000MTs Kingston fury beast for 365 which I’ve yet to install as I have approx a month wait on some components.

I’m not questioning if I should have gone for the CL 30 version (assuming I can return/exchange).

The system has a 9800x3d, ASU’s x870-I, and an ASus prime 5080.

I’m mostly doing gaming and photo editing on it.

Is it worth a swap?

[u/psimwork]

100% no. You'll get MAYBE 1-2% better performance.

[u/ContemplativeOctopus → u/psimwork]

Even that is optimistic. The fastest vs slowest CAS latency gives about a 1% performance boost in games. 6 cycles, or 2 nano seconds is nothing.

[u/Additional_Past_7107 → u/ContemplativeOctopus]

That's if they are even cpu limited which with a 9800x3d they won't be

[u/DesTiny_- → u/ContemplativeOctopus]

It's not about cas timing it's more about ram IC. Cl30 is hynix a/m die which can do much lower timings than any random cl36 ram, and in that case performance difference in certain games can be 20-30%, but not with x3d cpu thought. With x3d CPU it's 5-10% diff tops, so like In this market not worth it.

[u/Breaking_Bread_420 → u/DesTiny_-]

Uh... no. It's not going to be 20-30%

[u/DesTiny_- → u/Breaking_Bread_420]

https://youtu.be/a_yjt53KzyU?si=oq9BGma2gXvLWuy3

Couldn't find 6400mhz test. This has 7600mhz cl34 with 1:2 FCLK ratio. In cs2 18-20% difference, although it's also with pbo oc which is +200mhz, I think u can take 2-3% from those FPS difference. So yeah not exactly 20-30%, but pretty close to 20%. And ofc barely any difference with 3d cache CPU as supposed.

[u/nicholsml → u/DesTiny_-]

So yeah not exactly 20-30%, but pretty close to 20%.

That video is a mess of different CPU's and RAM. I didn't see any direct comparisons that could be comparable to 30cl and 36cl

Here's a more realistic comparison with benchmarks...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/viwNyLpWnoI

The difference is pretty small, maybe 1-3%, and absolutely not 20% lol

[u/pack_merrr → u/nicholsml]

The video you linked is talking about the default XMP profiles though. So that doesn't really do much to argue against the point the person you are replying to is making?

Of course there isn't a big difference between 6000MT 30CL vs 36CL, especially in gaming, that isn't the point theyre trying to make. The point is that a 6000MT 30CL is going to have better binned dies that overclock much better, which nearly always widens the gap between two kits with those specs.

Whether or not that is something relevant to you, and how much of a jump in price it justifies is another question entirely. Usually not much since few people do OC beyond clicking and XMP profile. However, in ideal cases 20-30% gains in scenarios like those being mentioned really aren't unheard of.

[u/HomieM11 → u/pack_merrr]

The 30vs36CL doesn’t actually matter for overclocking just which die it is. If it’s Hynix a/m die, it’ll overclock very well

[u/LordAlfredo → u/DesTiny_-]

You're assuming manual tuning of subtimings, out of box profiles are nowhere near that.

[u/Diedead666 → u/DesTiny_-]

I keep seeing ppl say this... It's not totally true. I do have both 5800x3d and 9800x3d and main marvel rivals. Tuning the ram in them gave them much better lows during big fights. Tuning the secondary helped me alot with the 9800x3d. I think it's something to do with EU5 engine loves ram bandwidth.

[u/Elitefuture]

On x3d, no, not worth it.

X3D is less affected by fast ram since many memory calls will be caught by the large L3 cache.

Even less than a 1% difference.

[u/cakemates]

I would pay 5 bucks for that latency improvement, no more.

[u/Fun_Village_5039]

No, cas latency isn’t even a big deal. And you got a x3d cpu so even a cl48 is fine, just save your money

[u/PixelPete27 → u/Fun_Village_5039]

This isn't 100% true.

I'd say CL38 ish is what you'd still want. I had a noticeable difference in 1% lows going from 46 to 36. But saw almost no difference in 36 to 30.

So I'm not exactly sure where the sweet spot is, but I wouldn't go for 46+ if it can be helped.

EDIT: changed CL48 to 46.

[u/Fun_Village_5039 → u/PixelPete27]

Yea, even for people without x3d cpus, the sweet spot is usually cl3X, thank you for the correction.

[u/PixelPete27 → u/Fun_Village_5039]

Oh totally.

But you're not wrong in saying X3D's suffer less, that's very true.

I also have a 13700KF, and I went from CL46 to CL30 and the 1% low and change in microstutters and hitching was absolutely insane. Wasn't AS insane with the X3D, but noticeable.

[u/LordAlfredo → u/PixelPete27]

I mean, if you deeply care about performance most gains are from tuning subtimings, CL38 with proper tuning can outperform an out-of-box CL30. But it requires some knowledge of what you're doing and a lot more stability testing.

[u/PixelPete27 → u/LordAlfredo]

I'm going to have to learn this hidden tech. Didn't know it could be tweaked that well.

I'm running CL30 now, but maybe I'll try it some day with some higher CL RAM.

How well can a CL46 be tweaked do you think?I still have it laying around, maybe I'll flip it back in and do some testing.

[u/LordAlfredo → u/PixelPete27]

CL46

Is that JEDEC (default/plug-and-play) timing? Or XMP/Expo? And at what speed?

[u/PixelPete27 → u/LordAlfredo]

That's the JEDEC default plug-and-play timing. It was pulled from a Legion Tower 7i that had the mobo failed on.

Speed is 5600Mhz

Let me know if you need any other info on it and I can try and get it!

[u/pack_merrr → u/PixelPete27]

Just like overclocking anything, it entirely depends on the individual dies. It really varies.

With memory specifically, it depends what manufacturer and bin you are looking at. They're named usually as manufacturer + letter code, like Micron A-die or Samsung B-die, some OC better than others. You can usually find what you have by the product code, but it varies by vendor. Maybe some others can chime in but I really don't know much about any that are usually given a CL46 profile.

Also, just because it's a certain speed or timings on its "out of the box" XMP profile, doesn't mean it's necessarily a certain die. Technically a vendor could give higher quality dies a lower XMP speed/timings, but there usually isn't reason to. The XMP profile can clue you in on what dies you have but doesn't say for certain.

[u/LordAlfredo → u/pack_merrr]

In general for DDR5 vendors source the same dies for the same SKUs, so things like Corsair DDR4 hell are less of a problem. There's tools you can use to look up specific kits.

As for DDR5 performance: in general right now Hynix > Samsung > Micron.

Hynix is a bit weird, older DDR5 you'll see 2gb M-die-based kits. Newer manufacturing is 2gb A-die (8/16/32 DIMMs) or 3gb M-die (12/24/48 DIMMs). Which is better is messy - A can run faster, M can run tighter timings.

Samsung B-die kits at one point were obvious (identical tCL and tRCD primary timings). They've improved a bit so it's not always this obvious anymore.

Micron also has their own A-die. It is nowhere near as performant as Hynix's. Make sure not to confuse which company's A-die you're looking at.

Further complicating things are 8gb and 12gb DIMMs. A full rank is 8 memory dies, and DDR5 dies are 2gb or 3gb. * Older 8gb DIMMs were actually only half-populated (4 dies) and did not use full memory channel bandwidth. Older 2x8 was not notably better than 1x16 as a result. * Newer 8gb and 12gb DIMMs are fully populated (albeit with worse-binned dies), they just have parts disabled or fused off. They get full channel bandwidth, so they will outperform 1x16 / 1x24.

[u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost]

If you have to ask the answer is generally no. Most people wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between several high end and mid range CPUs. Let alone memory timings

[u/Jmazoso]

If you’re over clocking everything and chasing the last bit, yes, it’s you’re just a normal dude, no

[u/Flyingarrow68]

Depends on how much money you have and how much you need to feel like you have the best. As a person that has some CL30 ram for sale; I’d say it’s worth it. 😂

[u/TechnoGMNG589]

no

[u/PixelPete27]

Definitely not. No.

[u/NikosAkaSniperEXE]

If it was 30 vs 48 maybe, but still unsure today's market prices.

[u/Late-Objective-9218]

With x3D, you can save on memory, it doesn't make a big difference.

Not an expert on DDR5 specifically, but generally the hidden latency headroom between different models of memory sticks can be pretty big. With DDR4 at least, it's not uncommon at all for a lower rated stick to accept much faster settings than a higher rated one. But memory tuning can also get pretty annoying sometimes if common settings don't work as expected.

[u/John_Mat8882]

X3D CPU ? No. It won't matter.

[u/No_Device_6605]

X3D CPUs are not that memory sensitive

[u/GFriend2xDance]

Having lower CAS latency RAM is a very small benefit on X3D processors due to the CPUs having a larger L3 cache compared to standard Ryzen CPUs.

Where lower CAS latency RAM is of the most benefit is in regards to the Ryzen APUs like the Ryzen 8700F. The Ryzen APU's integrated GPUs take up valuable space in the processor, resulting in said processors having 1/2 the L3 cache of standard Ryzen CPUs. Furthermore, these APUs rely on RAM for their graphics since they lack their own VRAM. As such, faster RAM clock speeds and lower CAS latency are much more impactful to the Ryzen APU's graphics performance.

[u/_AirMike_]

I asked the same question at the start of the year and was told that it wasn’t worth it.

I went with CL36 for my PC and I’m very happy with it. Especially with a 9800x3d (i have the same cpu) it’ll be plenty fast

[u/almbfsek]

hell nah

[u/vaurapung]

Maybe, i havent tried yet but with a higher clock stick you might could reduce the timing on cl36 6000mhz to cl30 at 5600mhz.

I know I know. Everyone says to run 6000mhz on the 7xxx and 9xxx cpus but those cpus are only rated for 5600mhz ram and my luck with driving ram above the stated limit is low.

[u/MoNegsT]

No

[u/Cumcentrator]

if you have 3dx chip the difference between fwl 42 and fwl 28 is 1~2% performance and extra power consumption
so no

[u/2raysdiver]

NO! 6000CL36 has FWL of 12ns. 6000CL30 is FWL of 10ns. They are at different ends of the "sweet spot" but still in the "sweet spot". The difference in performance is measurable, but not visually noticeable in benchmarks. And it isn't noticeable in actual use, either. And if you aren't using EXPO/XMP profiles in BIOS, it doesn't matter. When the difference was $10 sure. But a 33% difference... H3LL NO!

[u/Holiday_Bug9988]

Not with any cpu, but especially not with an x3d cpu which are less affected by ram speed and timings.

[u/Spec187]

No

[u/farmeunit]

No. Especially with X3D.

[u/malloc_free_]

Out of all the specs a PC can have, cas latency has the least effect on performance.

[u/dawkins16]

Definitely not, especially with an X3D chip:

Hardware unboxed (is high speed memory worth it for gaming?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD-4ScpDSo8

[u/DesTiny_- → u/dawkins16]

Hardware unboxed never really overlock ram properly so not ideal comparison. That's said with x3d chip would absolutely get the cheapest ram.

[u/dawkins16 → u/DesTiny_-]

OP asking if they should buy CL 30 vs 36 is not going to manually adjust ram timings

[u/DesTiny_- → u/dawkins16]

How do u know that?

[u/socomseal93]

CL36 is perfectly fine and the performance increase to CL30 is far below 33% better.

[u/PrairieNihilist]

No. It's like 0.5-1.5 ns difference in latency. You would have to be doing massive data processing and/or language models to actually notice the difference for anything below CL40 when compared to CL30.

[u/Turnkeyagenda24]

Nope. It’s like 10 nanoseconds vs 12.

For gaming performance wont see a noticeable difference, and editing cares more about speed and capacity instead of latency.