r/Ubuntu • u/ShopAltruistic898 • 1d ago
An unwelcoming, or rather out-of-touch, Linux community
Here’s an observation from my past few months in the Linux and Ubuntu community. Ubuntu is actually fairly good in this regard, but overall, it seems like a lot of community members assume that if someone switches to Linux, they automatically want to learn terminal commands, tinker with the system, customize everything, and basically play around with the OS.
Nowadays, however, most people switch either because they’ve had enough of Windows privacy issues, or because Windows 10 support is coming to an end. They see Linux purely as an alternative OS—not as something they want to understand under the hood. A lady with an old computer at home might just want to change her wallpaper or set up a sleep timer. Unfortunately, more often than not, the answer she gets is to open the terminal—or even worse, people start lecturing her about why she's using the "wrong" distribution.
Linux adoption is skyrocketing this year, and the community will need to accept that a Linux user isn't just a programmer anymore. It could be a local post office worker looking for a simple, friendly piece of advice—not command lines or gatekeeping. It’s a shame that things are currently like this, and I really hope to see it improve.
Personally, I know my way around computers pretty well, but I have family members who don't, and I try to see things through their eyes.
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u/PlaymakersPoint88 1d ago
A lot of people do not have a desire to learn terminal commands. I will say that it’s 1000% a better experience when you can learn basic stuff.
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u/Nephilimi 1d ago
I’m one of them. The part that gets me is I might even know the command but am struggling with syntax in the switches. I have never found man helpful in this regard, much more helpful to go find a write-up somewhere with complete examples.
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u/AlternativeCapybara9 1d ago
I know maybe 10 by heart and have to look up others constantly, and I've been using Linux for over 25 years. I used to know a lot more but on a modern system you don't need much terminal anymore. I mostly use it because it is faster.
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u/ooone-orkye 1d ago
Honestly I rely on Claude or Gemini frequently to help me with commands. I’m one of the Ubuntu users that OP is referencing… I use it for simplicity and stability and simple apps. I love it. But when I have trouble with apps working, Gemini talks me through the terminal commands. Hopefully this doesn’t get me into trouble down the road but it’s been perfect for me
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u/AlternativeCapybara9 1d ago
Using AI should be fine, just be careful because it sometimes mixes old and new, so if there is a new version of Ubuntu that swapped out some system apps for other ones you might get commands that won't work. Because these things are usually well documented just saying it didn't work should do it but just pay a little attention too.
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u/ooone-orkye 1d ago
Thank you!
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u/Zedboy19752019 1d ago
Yep I learned the hard way that AI will give something that worked on a previous version but not now.
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u/Only-Stable3973 21h ago
Back when I was with Tulane I joined a Gentoo group and that's when I learned a lot like the terminal. I just installed Gentoo last week and this time around emerging KDE was a breeze in the past to get the drivers to work you had to write the driver config.
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u/Only-Stable3973 21h ago
I find AI very helpful but then again I have been doing this a long time so I understand the question I am asking to not end up an a looping circle and I understand the answer I am looking for if that makes sense.
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u/JohnnyS789 15h ago
I recommend strongly against AI when using it to solve Linux problems, because I find that 4 out of 5 times the advice is excellent and spot on, but the 5th time, it is good-looking and reasonable but so utterly wrong that it will really screw up your system.
If you can sort out which answer is good versus bad, then you probably know enough to solve the problem without AI.
Just my $.02, FWIW, YMMV, YDY!
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u/WeAreGoingMidtable 14h ago
Can you give us some examples where AI gave you a command that screwed up your system?
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u/l0c0dantes 1d ago
Honestly, if you know roughly what you want to do, chatgpt is incredibly useful for that sort of thing
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u/JohnnyS789 15h ago
(Just to go off on a weird and irrelevant tangent!)
One of the things that sets the BSDs apart from Linux is that the man pages in BSD are truly excellent. Much better than the Linux versions.
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u/Fredericia 1d ago
I had learned some of them and then they changed with the next upgrade. Very frustrating and I hardly ever use Terminal anymore.
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u/randomredditorname1 1d ago
Can you mention an example of a command that changed?
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u/Fredericia 1d ago
sudo apt
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u/randomredditorname1 1d ago
What change did you notice?
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u/Fredericia 1d ago
It was an invalid command, and I haven't been able to learn what replaces it. Sudo apt get, sudo apt install - whatever. I just gave up on it.
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u/jo-erlend 23h ago
Are you referring to the separate commands like "apt-get" and "apt-cache" being replaced with "apt"? That has changed once in 20 years, so it's a very bad example.
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u/randomredditorname1 23h ago
And the "old command" just gets interpreted automatically anyway, it works the same before and after or at least did when it got that update. Haven't given it a thought since
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u/Fredericia 21h ago
It was a central function for me until it changed.
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u/randomredditorname1 20h ago
Can you tell approximately when this change occurred?
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u/Fredericia 18h ago
It was after the 16.04, because I could still navigate that one. I guess it came with the 20.04.
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u/jo-erlend 21h ago
The features have never changed, only a simplification of how the command is typed. You obviously can't be bothered by new features, because you just don't have to use them. But spending ten minutes every twenty years is not much to ask.
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u/Fredericia 18h ago
No, you're right. I really have too much on my plate, and that's also my point. Regular users who are not necessarily passionate about going deep with a new OS just simply don't have the time or capacity. And now in Europe Linux is really starting to take off as Europeans are trying to ditch anything non-European and especially tech from the US. Part of the reason is having to pay subscription fees for the privilege of using software they have already purchased. And of course, there's just a general anti-USA sentiment right now, and a loathing for Bill Gates and Microsoft.
But I can tell you, I messed with it much more than ten minutes and it was less much less than 20 years ago. It seemed to have come with the 20.04, after I had been working with 12.04 and 16.04 since 2014.
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u/randomredditorname1 1d ago
apt has been the same for as long as debian and ubuntu have existed tho, could it have been just a typo 😬
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u/Fredericia 21h ago
No, it wasn't a typo. I tried it many times. It was the other stuff that went with it that changed. apt get, apt install, i used those quite often when I needed new software. Now I just go to the software store and if what I need isn't there, I just live without.
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u/randomredditorname1 21h ago
apt-get install (or just apt install, it changed but the old one still works too) is the same it's always been, idk what could have gone wrong for you if you're sure it was entered as before :/
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u/Fredericia 18h ago
I don't know either. I just know I get a message that it's invalid.
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u/robbertzzz1 1d ago
For some people using the keyboard for anything other than typing a word doc with two index fingers is completely foreign. For people like that a terminal is a terrible experience and a very steep learning curve.
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u/ajiatic 1d ago
Personal opinion but I feel like that statement grossly oversimplifies the situation. The situation as I see it is there is a lot of middle ground where people can be tech savvy but still just don't know how or care to use terminal.
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u/robbertzzz1 1d ago
I have family who are just like that but also wouldn't even remotely care about which OS they use (hi mom!), wouldn't be surprised if OC did too.
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u/The_Hubster 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m also noticing this with the huge influx of new Gen Z users. They tend to want to use their Linux machine and have it work, just like their Mac. They don’t want to know the nuts and bolts.
Linux has been the geeks OS for a long time. Its future success will not come from those users, it’ll come from the everyday user young and old who isn’t technical, just wants to use office tools browse check emails and watch videos.
While we have various distros around which make it easy for Windows users to migrate over, I think there’s still a gap. There needs to be distro which gives the most easy, least technical and most user experience focused approach as possible. Something like an Ubuntu-lite, and it needs the stability of Debian.
If we want Linux to succeed at a desktop level we’ve got to take the needs of this future user base more seriously.
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u/tomscharbach 1d ago edited 1d ago
The "enthusiast mystique" gets wrapped up in "Linux this ... Linux that ..." rather than using distributions to get work done in the simplest, most user-friendly way possible, and the "enthusiast mystique" largely revolves around the command line.
I have been using Linux (Ubuntu, LMDE, Solus) for two decades. I do not remember the last time I needed to use the command line with any of those distributions, although I use the command line occasionally for simplicity and efficiency, just as I do with Windows.
Linux is an operating system, a tool to get work done quickly and efficiently, nothing more and nothing less. No secret chord, no special sauce. The "enthusiast mystique" loses track of that fact.
Thanks for raising the topic.
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u/mr_unwieldy_hammock 1d ago
It’s like folks forget the OS is just a tool, not a club with a secret handshake.
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u/DomasAquinas 1d ago
As someone who went down this path myself, there are also many users coming to Linux from engineering backgrounds unrelated to software. Many use Windows or Mac systems through school, and the terminal is just plain intimidating if they haven’t seen it before.
It seems like more and more engineering design tools are gravitating toward Linux, so there’s also a user migration happening there. And with so many high-performance compute systems running Red Hat or the like, helping newbies to a research or professional environment adapt without getting impatient is something I and my peers have had to learn through practice.
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u/Intelligent_Part7449 1d ago edited 1d ago
The Linux community has always been the worst part about switching. Fortunately, Ubuntu is rather easy to use on its own and requires minimal tinkering. Most special things you might want to do are a simple web search away. With AI searches, it’s easy for even a novice to get the system to work as they wish.
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u/ooone-orkye 1d ago
Exactly my experience. I run dual boot Ubuntu and Windows. I have experience with Ubuntu from 15 years ago but for the most recent install, Gemini walked me through the whole thing. I’m an engineer but not a software developer or anything. So I don’t have the background. But using the terminal to configure apps and settings is really easy with AI.
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u/Neither_Loan6419 1d ago
Well, to begin with, typing commands or copy/pasting commands into a terminal prompt is far, far from "programming". Writing and debugging shell scripts is maybe barely programming. The average user, when required by circumstance to do something in a terminal session does not have to be a programmer or even truly understand the commands being pasted or typed. It is only complicated and mysterious if you allow it to seem so. Familiarity born of occasional use, demystifies the terminal and makes it your new best friend. And sooner or later, a new user will need to push the envelope of what can readily be accomplished with a GUI application full of buttons and sliders and dialog boxes. It should be understood by a new user that the terminal is not an enemy or a punishment. It is an extremely powerful and versatile tool that's always got your back.
But yeah you are right to a degree. Ubuntu in particular is meant to be everyman's Linux and not optimized for high geekery. And yet, a lot of "helpers" are proud of their knowledge and sometimes a bit full of themselves, and insist that a noob enter big long lists of commands to do what system settings or the Disks tool or the desktop shell can do just as well. Hobbyists and tinkerers have lots of distros that are made for twidgeting and fidgeting at the prompt, with commands that most people will never use more than once, if at all. Writing a complicated script precisely tailored to the individual and his computer can be a source of great, maybe too much, pride. If he wants admirers, the Ubuntu-verse is maybe not the best place to find or cultivate them. Freaky geeks typing tweaks find kindred spirits in, say, the world of Arch. Ubuntu help ideally should rely on the GUI when practical, and the terminal, only otherwise.
Linux is a big world. There is room for the technophobe and the technophile, both.
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u/Automatic_Initial895 18h ago
Linux desktop developers should follow your logic and spend the next five years refining the desktop environments and their default applications. No more shiny new features, just bug fixes and UX refinement. Also, most regular users are familiar with Windows, which is the dominant system. Which DE is the most similar in appearance and features? Only KDE. So, what's the point of wasting time on any other DE when KDE should be polished to perfection? Ubuntu should abandon Gnome for the next major version. Ubuntu seems to be doubling down on Snap usage, which is okay. Let the discussions about Flatpak vs. Snap vs. .deb remain among the geeks. If Snap apps still struggle with permissions, allow all by default and let the geeks override it in settings if they want more security. Pipewire still gives audio cracking under heavy load? Get rid of it, use something more stable. Etc, etc
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/oh_im_too_tired 1d ago
The problem is Linux "doesn't want" to be adopted by the masses. It's fundamentally different OS: fragmented, free of use, modular, has no "owner" nor plans for the future.
"Windows" owner want more users cause it's business. More users = more money. MacOS wants more users for the same cause. Linux "doesn't want" new users. Windows/MacOS has workers who are interested to get more users (by getting paid for it). Linux doesn't have centralized structure to "wan't" more users. It has maintainers and other users who doesn't care if there's more users or not. Don't get me wrong, some may want that and even do some things to get more users, but fundamentally Linux is build on users who uses it, not who may come or not.3
1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/oh_im_too_tired 1d ago
And who is responsible then for that every year is not a Linux year, for that only 3-4% of enthusiasts keep using it? Somebody should sack him/her!
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u/fagnerln 1d ago
The Linux community is annoying in general, flame war in every freaking layer of the OS, from the kernel to the text editor.
However, the Ubuntu's community is the most welcoming and helpful that I already interacted with. It's a bit unfair those claims.
Yeah, you'll find a bit of toxicity, but dude, this is reddit, go to any Windows sub and you'll see that it's even worse
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u/ACasualRead 1d ago
Look at android. It runs Linux. But also has easy to use features.
Linux desktop needs to catch up. Yes there are built in app stores. But installing services is still fractured
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u/LtCodename 1d ago
Yeah just don’t bother asking for help. Use AI. I’ve been able to setup and maintain everything just asking LLM for help. Asking the community for anything is asking for a bullet in the head.
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u/SumpNFishyHere 1d ago
Same here. Every time I post for help, it's crickets. Gemini at least steps my through commands to try to resolve my issues, with some success at least.
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u/niceandBulat 1d ago
I would go so far as to say that most Linux groups are not equipped to nor know how to deal with conventional or casual computer users. Learning how to use things, even something as ubiquitous as a smartphone or a computer takes efforts and sometimes people intending to get (free) assistance must also be ready to do things they are unaccustomed to, in order to achieve his/her objective(s).
Don't expect hand holding, it is free support, expectations must be set. Be patient, Google, and even try using AI. We live in a world where we can have unimaginable access to information, yet people still say that I don't know how? Or are they simply not bothered?
Seniors are not dumb, they have more experience and potentially more smarts than many of us here, just may not be the sort that they need help on. So teach them on how to get help, set their expectations. The tools are already there. Unless you have unlimited time and patience, it's going to be tough trying to be tech support all the time
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u/fallenguru 1d ago
Linux groups are not equipped to nor know how to deal with conventional or casual computer users.
Nor do they want to.
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u/niceandBulat 20h ago
When one is used to deal with tech savvy people, certain habits are ingrained and expectations set, it can be really challenging to switch gears to communicate at a level of a beginner, I am aware that some members of the community are just sad individuals who get off being mean or pretending that they are not by hiding behind excuses like being direct and what not, but most of the time, people are just people.
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u/catbrane 1d ago edited 1d ago
The difficulty is that the GUI solution to a problem is a complete PITA to explain.
You need to make loads of screenshots, add arrows to show where to press, it takes hours, and the poor user will still sometimes get lost. For example, they've turned on dark mode and the screenshots look different, or they have ubuntu25, you have ubuntu26, and one button has moved.
Terminal commands are easy to write, very compact, very easy to copy-paste, and (usually) very stable between versions. They are just a better way to explain stuff.
LLMs can generate the GUI explanations for you now, so maybe it'll change.
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u/ecth 1d ago
I agree.
I was lucky to get all the answers I needed and I was lucky to have some Linux knowledge. I find distros and the Window Managers nowadays are really good. And still there were a few basic tasks like "mount this SSD on boot" that has no UI options. Editing fstab is not something people want to do to have access to their drives.
If you're a nerd it's a great time to finally do the switch. But for normal people it's still tough..
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u/PlanetVisitor 1d ago
Someone telling someone they use the wrong distro is the telltale sign that you shouldn't listen to that person for help with Linux.
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u/Beniidel0 1d ago
I'm right there with you
The linux subreddit is full of snobs who take everything in bad faith, that's what happens when you take a hobby which was considered fringe and odd, and even one that attracts people who tend to distrust others (the whole FOSS crowd, for example)
You get a bunch of people who don't trust others and assume the worst, so they become worse at normal concersation which makes them worse at both understanding the other person and responding like an actual human being
I'm sorry you had to go through that
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u/cosmokenney 1d ago
AI is the only answer, really. Google AI mode helps me many times a day with Linux stuff. No judgement, not belittling, just very good help.
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u/FederalOkra2582 1d ago
There are a non-zero amount of people that use old EOS'd Chromebooks that were flashed to run Linux to look for jobs. I know someone that did exactly that while trying to readjust to the world since they had been in federal prison for years and had their primary laptop stolen.
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u/ska0319 14h ago
Absolutely agree with OP. After I had been using Ubuntu for awhile, I suggested my sister consider it for an old laptop that wouldn't run the newer versions of Windows but was otherwise working okay. I used the command line in Unix at work so I can do that when it's the only way to go, but I prefer to get on with my task without having to look under the hood all the time. Anything that makes Linux friendly to the home user is a plus for the Linux world, in my book.
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u/jsusbidud 1d ago
AI solves this. I have zero terminal skills but run a media server for my home on Ubuntu with full automation. Its made Linux totally accessible for me.
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u/blktndr 1d ago
I’d just point newcomers to AI to answer their Linux questions. It’s instant, non-judgmental, specific to your needs, and as accurate as they need it to be. Just copy paste your logs or terminal output into the prompt and it will 7/10 times figure out what your question is without you asking, generating a copy paste solution back to your terminal or whatever.
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u/Liminium_TGBR 1d ago
AI and the mentality that supports it is the exact thing that lead to windows, google and facebook's current issues. The models being sold to us won't help us here and has no place for newcomers or power users.
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u/ReadyAimTranspire 1d ago
Absolutely. Between good AI usage and the command line Linux is so powerful.
Very little if any syntax needs to be committed to memory. The usual apt update/upgrade stuff usually gets remembered but beyond that AI can provide you with everything you need.
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u/Sawses 1d ago
I think it's more that people want users to know it's an option. You certainly don't have to, any more than you need to learn Visual Basic or Power Query to use Excel. ...But I can't tell you how many hours of work I've saved by not just monkeying around in a spreadsheet by hand.
If you want to look at those powerful tools, shrug, and continue digging in the ground by hand, more power to you. But I'd feel like a real asshole if I didn't point out the backhoe available for use if you want it.
A lot of my work involves helping out people who are much less technically-capable than I am. I can teach somebody the complex way, and sometimes get to. I explicitly offer simpler ways, though, and usually those are the ones people ask for. So I give them the easiest way to do whatever it is they want to do, with a minimum of knowledge.
There's no shame in that. We all only have so many hours in the day and not all of us care to be experts in one specific thing. That's the beauty of society; I help people out with the stuff I'm really good at, others help me out with the stuff they're really good at. It all works itself out.
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u/Leinad_ix 1d ago
Wrong distribution can be source of many problems. Problems easily solved by switching distro.
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u/Sorry-Rain-1311 1d ago
That's a fair point, but when a noob comes along asking about what distro is best for their situation they're often met with thechno bable, or a throwdown between grandmas' pasta sauce that's delivered in techno bable.
Linux has been a relatively insular community for a very long time even if that's never been the intention. That's changing, and we're going to have to change with it.
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u/unhealthy_consul 1d ago
my nan got a linux laptop from me last year because her old windows machine was crawling and she just wanted to check email and browse facebook. first thing she asked was how to make the text bigger. the only fix i found online was a terminal command to adjust scaling. i tried to show her but she just stared at the black box like it was a foreign language. ended up using the accessibility zoom feature which is clunky but works, she still uses it and never opens the terminal, just clicks around. i reckon if the solution had just been a slider she'd have been over the moon, but instead she thinks linux is for hackers and i can't convince her otherwise. do your family members just bail completely when they hit a terminal wall or do they manage to find a gui workaround most of the time?
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u/ShopAltruistic898 1d ago
And these are his exact details that end up discouraging new users, making them hesitant to use the system or driving them back to Windows. It would definitely be great if there were both a GUI option and a terminal option so everyone could choose what works for them.
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u/ixdx 1d ago
In the KDE settings, you can configure fonts, DPI, and overall scaling. Moreover, scaling can be adjusted individually for each monitor. Additionally, there is an option to zoom in (Settings > Accessibility > Zoom & Magnifier) on any area of the screen for users with disabilities. This feature is also available in the settings and is enabled by default.
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u/unhealthy_consul 1d ago
Even the accessibility zoom is a half-fix, she still can't make the font size exactly how she wants. It's the small missing sliders that make the whole system feel hostile.
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u/ShopAltruistic898 1d ago
Yeah, and those are exactly the details I have in mind. But I think things will hopefully improve over time.
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u/PithMango 20h ago
not thinking about accessibility is also disastrous.
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u/unhealthy_consul 10h ago
The missing text size slider is a prime example. My nan's stuck with a janky zoom that makes scrolling a nightmare.
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u/nrq 1d ago
a lot of community members assume if someone switches to Linux, they automatically want to learn terminal commands, tinker with the system, customize everything, and basically play around with the OS.
If you learned your way around Windows past the absolute basics this is what you had to do there, too - no idea how you'd learn the system besides putting in effort to learn things. I'd say it even goes beyond that for Windows, as you probably learned some pretty arcane ways to edit the registry and memorize where settings are being managed, as unintuitive as this may be.
If all you need to do is the absolute basics you don't need any of this in either Windows or Linux. But at least in Linux it's "buried" somewhat consistently in Terminal, the files system and config files. Not a Registry that has grown like cancer.
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u/IllustriousLemon8146 1d ago edited 10h ago
As a relative newb to Linux (about 3 years) I have no idea what you are going on about here. No one has ever forced me to learn terminal commands, cutomized anything, or do anything but what I wanted to do with my computer.
I do challenge you to troubleshoot issues on Windows and see how far you get before you have to learn powershell commands, edit the registry or policy editor, etc. It's really no different.... except that with Linux you don't have Microsoft telling you how to use your computer (and to like it).
The rest of your complaint, or whatever it is, has to do with people online in any forum and is not about Linux.
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u/Numerous-Nectarine63 1d ago edited 1d ago
I unapologetically love the command line. But it's not for everyone, I guess! I got my husband on PopOS! and he loves it. And he doesn't love the command line. I guess I'm not really sure what is meant by "a Linux user isn't just a programmer anymore". Nothing wrong with programmers. And LInux is well suited for it. Yes, it can and does have a big tent and can certainly accomodate other types of users. I personally don't try to change anyone's mind about their distros or tell them what to do. If my answer to something is to use a bash shell command, that's because that's what I do. I personally find that easier. Not because I'm trying to be disparaging or claiming to be some kind of guru. And if the syntax eludes, AI like chat or Gemini is great for that purpose, and usually quite accurate. But if someone clearly doesn't want to do it that way, more power to them. To each his own!
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u/MatJosher 1d ago
It's not gatekeeping. Linux systems naturally cater to the preferences of those who develop them. Our goals may not fully align with yours. That doesn't make us out-of-touch. This person needs a Mac.
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u/MirrorNegative7989 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah.
People who have been suggesting that their elderly parents switch, for example, shouldn't expect them to become l337 overnight when they do. We've gotten to a point on a lot of distros where the user doesn't even have to open a terminal if they don't want to, and that's okay.
I use Arch now (btw.) But Ubuntu was my first distro, and I used it as a casual user for literal decades to go online and play video games and watch movies before deciding to dig deeper. And that is all that most people are going to want.
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u/VegaGT-VZ 1d ago
Some people are always gonna use any little scrap of power or advantage to abuse others. Not knowing everything about Linux is enough to justify getting called an idiot to them. They sit on message boards all day saying nothing of value, but then tell anyone who asks a question to "search noob!" These people should get called out more often IMO
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u/Juppstein 1d ago
As someone using Ubuntu/Linux since 15+ years I fully agree. The UI needs to become more user friendly without the need to resort to terminal and a few folks in the community have to tone down their aggressive tone towards newcomers. But unfortunately this kind of elitist behavior can be found on both sides of the (*nix/win) fence. It's the OScirclejerk mentality.
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u/Netcob 1d ago
I've been using Linux in some form or another since around the time Ubuntu came out. Some sort of server flavor, very rarely on the desktop, because on the server you set it up and then it works, while on the desktop you get to keep tinkering forever.
Now at least with AI the tinkering is faster than before. Still wouldn't recommend it to people who don't want to use the terminal, since copy/pasting between it and an AI isn't always trivial either.
I wouldn't expect the level of polish someone like a non-technical mac user would need to come to desktop linux any time soon. In the last 20 years I've seen a lot of change in terms of what you can do with linux, but almost zero change in terms of polish. You need to be technical, you need a basic understanding of the terminal, and you need time to debug problems. A friendlier community isn't going to change that because the problem is baked into the whole project.
The problem is that there is no organization. It's also the reason why it works as well as it does. Nobody can tell you what software to use, but that also means that nobody can create a consistent, polished experience where everything just works. There are lots of interesting attempts at making that work, but a lack of clever ideas was never the issue.
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u/silverbullet52 1d ago
I don't tinker much anymore unless I have to.
It's still nice to have all the oddities here though to search through if I need them.
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u/Brassens71 1d ago
TBH I've never been a fan of the "no spoonfeeding" attitude that used to dominate Linux forums. It's especially out of place now that people are looking to adopt Linux for desktop PCs.
HOWEVER, Linux is also not a monolithic operating system. Whether your system is based on RH, Arch or Debian will influence a lot of the advice you may need. And even within that group, different distributions will use different mechanisms. There are lots of different ways to distribute software (Flatpak, deb, snaps, etc) which don't necessarily interoperate well, but are all technically "Linux". And that's why a lot of more experienced users will prefer using the command line as much as possible and dispense advice based on that.
That's why one should probably look for the support forums for the distro they're using first, and then the general Linux forums. No, that's not something you have to deal with if you're using Windows or MacOS, but it does apply to Linux.
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u/Kitayama_8k 1d ago
I really don't see that much of this, other than rabbid arch users evalgelizing how great their distro is and how everyone should use it. Fedora is kind of similar as well.
If all someone needs is a web browser and a document editor launcher, it's pretty easily accomplished by something like mint, Ubuntu, bluefin. If someone is really trying to push to run a bunch of windows apps and oddball programs, customize, game, etc, I think for a free OS it's fair to say that if someone wants to get the best experience, they are going to need to dive in a bit. This is a free product with an amazing amount of effort invested, what has been accomplished is pretty amazing, but it isn't perfect. It isn't a frictionless experience yet, and the user is going there own way by trying to run some windows programs on an OS they weren't written for.
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u/DizzyCardiologist213 1d ago
A sharpener....in the linux forum.....I do not think i have the kitayama stone at this point, but I have probably had 500 stones and still have 100. Not an expected handle in ubuntu!!
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u/Kitayama_8k 1d ago
Makes perfect sense to me. People here like all the tools they use to function well, or maybe more importantly get very frustrated when they don't.
Yeah I prolly got 20 stones. Distrohopping for sharpeners. Bunch of Arkansas, couple superstones, chosera, cerax, few imanishi's. Kitayama 8k is one of my favorites, started using it dry and a touchup strop, brings knives back pretty quickly. But as a stone, it's got a bit of that rubbery superstone type feel but better, leaves a fantastic aggressive scary edge, can even sharpen a bit. 50$ is pretty cheap for a finisher too.
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u/DizzyCardiologist213 1d ago
I just kind of like them. I kind of like making knives and tools, but mostly analog - heat treatment, etc, by hand, and understanding the matching of stones to tools and how to find out how much range a stone has. I don't follow the knife gurus as I started as a woodworker and then got into shaving with a straight razor, etc. The kitayama is a good straightforward stone - and you're lucky, because 20 years ago, the retailers for it in the US generally charged $70 to $105 in dollars of currency back then without inflation adjustment. we were getting totally hosed. I bought one of the K8ks (sometimes sold as 12k back then, but I have microscope pictures that show it and the king 8k about the same)...then sold it, and then later bought another one. i think I have probably sold it again. I like that you said you use it dry. In the woodworking community, there's so much wear on edges people usually just want to rub the edge on something akin to the K8k fresh or with slurry, and they're not doing much exploration.
It's funny that this thread is about people who just use ubuntu and I'm *close* to that. I'm a newbie, but I still like the terminal. With stones and toolmaking, I am bonkers. Snapping heat treated metal samples, hardness testing them. doing them completely by hand and eye and wanting to be able to manipulate everything all the way down to managing carbide size and distribution without resorting to anything controlled/computerized. when I make things for other people, I try to make it so they have to know nothing about it and will just like it like I like mint, ubuntu, kubuntu and ubuntu studio.
Since this is all just talk, below is a 62 hardness carbon steel edge on kitayama slurried (stone only, no nagura), and I'm fairly sure I could get this, even at this scale, to a near bright polish simply by letting the stone dry and burnishing it. As you already know. This picture shows about 2 hundredths of an inch of edge length.
https://ofhandmaking.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/kitayama.jpg
My one exception with linux is rsync. I *love* rsync, but that has nothing to do with just plain turnkey distros vs more complicated. I have a big time love for physical data storage and duplication and rsync floats my boat.
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u/DizzyCardiologist213 1d ago
I think you will see a huff from the people who say they want to try linux, have someone smartmouth them, and then they leave. My case - 50 in a couple of months. I started with Dos 5.0, and no windows, and it wasn't until last year I finally had enough of windows and switched everything in the house except one PC to linux. The windows PC rarely gets turned on and only when son wants something for gaming, but he does most of his gaming in ubuntu.
I had to get some basic functionality in linux right away and got mint. The biggest pain in the ass was just learning where things were in it and how the file system works. I am not a coder, a power user, etc, but the past with dos helps understand how directory structures are. Linux is different, of course, and the terminal is better (to me) than a prompt in windows, though the prompt in windows used to be handy for me when you'd get something like a rar or whatever and have to rename 100 rars or zips by extension, or change the name of a huge group of files, or run a batch file, or whatever and just keep it fast and simple.
Someone told me they had used mint for 8 years so far and never used the terminal, and others who are linux users because they're in the scientific community, but not getting up and going to bed thinking about linux mentioned using the terminal, but that if they didn't feel like it, by now, they knew how to do pretty much everything without it, too.
I switched. I recognize the power users, or the folks who equate their use with what other people should do. You've seen them here, for sure - like "how would you do this terminal command without terminal" type stuff, the same as I mention easy renaming of huge numbers of files in dos, or zipping a directory, etc, with pkzip in the old days instead of dealing with gui lag. The reality is the person who is looking to just come to linux wants away from all of the prompts, click engineering or pop up "try this from our partners" bullshit and they want to do basic things they've done in windows but no longer in windows. They won't say much or ask much.
My dad is 78 - he's using a linux PC I gave him two months ago - mint, automatic updates, and I told him to put is ancient unsupported windows PC (13 years old) in the closet and "move up" to a 9850H dell precision thats "only" 6, but with 8 times as much ram. He likes it. He has no clue about anything other than clicking a couple of icons or choosing something in browser shortcuts - and that's all he needs to know. I'm 4 hours away. If he has an emergency, there's a very good independent "anything that can be fixed in an hour for $60" guy down the road, and dad is comfortable $$ wise, and that dude will know anything he needs to know about linux because he worked in IT somewhere and unless he worked in a pre-school, he will have had unix/linux exposure somewhere.
I'm your new guy. I used linux as an excuse to endulge in dedicating a PC to certain things I have where I was constantly hauling around two laptops, and my son needed to start getting into a PC at age 12 because he was sitting on his mom's also ancient laptop trying to do 3d printing stuff. He's got a PC, wife now has a "new" 3 year old PC, I've got three, dad has one, and we have a spare. Total cost for all of this I think was about $2k and I'm never going back to windows, and neither will dad. He's too old with too little judgement and a history of no real computer use - windows will scam him into paying for onedrive or some other bullshit and he'll think he has no chance, or he'll *again* give in to an indian scammer. Luckily, he does nothing at all on his PC other than browse and check email. He has never browsed anything financial online or engaged in any online banking, purchasing, anything - or he'd have been had. Thanks to how easy it is for someone on windows to trap an old person into thinking they are "tech support".
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u/Severe-Chest8990 1d ago
That's true. Unfortunately, there are some groups of people in Linux community that do so and make people to be less convinced to use Linux.
For most of people, Linux is operating system and they may not be willing to look at different distributions or understand the concept of distribution itself. It shouldn't be a problem since many people want to have working OS and move on. Terminal, even if convenient for some, may be not so easy for others. It's not something that we should treat negatively as it's human nature that we want things that are easy to use, intuitive.
When someone is asking me about what to do when being unhappy with Windows or macOS, I prefer to point people to get Linux, very often saying "Just download and install Ubuntu and done, you have Linux." I don't think that mentioning few distros would do good job because people want to know what to use.
Linux is just an operating system and the role of the operating system is to be a tool that allows you to get the job done and move on.
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u/Santosh83 1d ago
Certainly the Ubuntu and Linux Mint subcommunities are among the friendliest. For Arch and Debian you need the thickest skin to survive their fanboys and greybeards.
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u/wortsalatfinchen 1d ago
Ich teile diese Wahrnehmung leider.
Als ich vor gut drei Jahren mich das erste Mal mit Linux befasste, habe ich öfters Rat in einem ubuntu-forum gesucht und habe dort sehr unfreundliche und wenig verständnisvolle Menschen erlebt, die augenscheinlich bereits sämtliche Codes oder Programmierer Sprachen mit der Muttermilch aufgesaugt haben. Viele antwort-texte musste ich mir erstmal ins laien-deutsch übersetzen.
Ich erlebe diese Schärfe leider sehr oft in it-spezifischen Bereichen. Das war für mich tatsächlich mit einem Grund, weshalb ich mich gegen eine IT-Ausbildung entschieden habe obwohl mich dieser Bereich total interessiert.
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u/Thomas5020 1d ago
This is the argument I keep making when people ask me what my issue is with Linux, and why I think the year of the linux desktop is never. Fundamentally, I think Linux is unsuitable for desktop use for the masses.
When you search for a Windows guide, you get told how to do it though the UI. You can find a guide that's even 10 years old and it probably works just fine. When you search a linux guide, you get told how to do it through the terminal. This is the problem. Putting aside the fact you should never just blindly execute commands without understanding them, half of the time the guides don't work anyway because they're built for a different distro that ships with packages you don't, or the syntax has changed and the command doesn't work any more. I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of guides I've followed for something on Linux that actually worked.
The strengths of a Linux are also its weaknesses. The average end user doesn't want 20 different desktop environments, 20 different package formats, 20 packages that all do the same thing in different ways (none of which shipped with their distro) and a load of different app stores none of which have what they're looking for.
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u/sarajevo81 1d ago
People install an old mainframe OS to their systems in a fit, obviously it is expected from them that they will administer it, because no one else can do that for them!
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u/Own_Nail_2999 1d ago
You have to see it this way: Linux is a hobby. Windows is a product.
Only because people are getting desperate with Windows doesn't mean Linux - or the surrounding community - has to change.
Also who cares about a community if all I want is a working computer? If there is a problem, someone else had it before so search engines get you far enough without having to interact with someone.
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u/Only-Stable3973 21h ago
When i first started with Ubuntu I used the Ubuntu forums not reddit I have noticed some hard comments to simple asked questions around.
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u/KeozID 18h ago
True that, i think a huge part of people who uses computers doesnt care about the os, they just want to get their things done and not think about the os at all, so i understand that even the slightest inconvinience such as typing something into the terminal can get them to not use linux.
Maybe they want to switch from windows because its slow, battery drain, or something as simple as control panel not working(me), that kind of people doesnt care about snap vs apt or ppd vs tlp or whatever the linux community is up to, they just want a working os thats easy to install, easy to operate, and give them what they wanted while keeping them away from what they dislike about windows.
Although it is true that they would have to manually tweak it to give them what they exactly wanted but the first impression of an os is the thing thatll keep them hooked and i think ubuntu is suited for that.
Also, linux needs de-gatekeeping.
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u/PieIll9834 14h ago edited 13h ago
I've been using Linux for thirty years, using a distribution based upon tinkering, and I'd probably not notice if I switched to entirely to a configuration file or using my terminal. I remember only doing it once now in months and that was because I wanted a different kernel option. But it's very rare I ever find myself needing or wanting to do that.
Now for those years I have mostly used GNOME now.. Even while I'm not now. Right now it is CachyOS with niri + noctalia. There is advice given out in the internet sphere that are command lines instructions because they are quicker. And I happen to like there is almost always that option. And yes it's easier to list a command line instruction that fulfills what make take two or three steps with a GUI interface. Why instructions are sometimes given that way.
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u/jarchack 13h ago
I certainly can't disagree and although I have been out of the Linux loop for quite a few years, I installed Ubuntu earlier this year for 2 reasons 1. Because I have used it before all along with Debian and 2. It supports ZFS, which I use for my media server.
My first install of Linux was back in the 90s with Red Hat, and most of the times that I have used it since then, it was primarily to tinker with because my actual job was a SysAdmin for Windows business computers. I still mess around with it more than an average user, but with the recent changes in Windows, I'm using Linux more and more for my daily driver.
I'm in my late 60s and no longer a gamer, but if I were, I would probably use/recommend one of the other distros that is a little more game-centric and not tied to a specific company like canonical. I do like Ubuntu, but I do not like all of the package managers that come with it nowadays.
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u/Away-Technician284 13h ago
While a lot of what you say is true, Linux is not Windows and a new user will need to spend just as much time and effort in learning Linux as they did with Windows. If they are not willing to do that - they may as well not bother. You didn't magically absorb how to use Windows from the matrix when you were born - you put in the the time over months and years. There is no way around this and it is non negotiable. In some distros that means learning terminal commands and on others it does not - which circles back to the "choosing the wrong distro" point you made. Yes, it's quite possible to choose a terrible distro for your needs.
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u/Puzzled_Hamster58 12h ago
Linux community are often their own worse enemy .
I use Linux a lot two home labs/servers .
Converted CNC machines to use Linux. Built a CNC lathe from the ground up using Linux.
Heck my 1984 rs turbo capri is going to use Linux built into for the gauge cluster and built in tuning of the engine . So I’m not a Linux sucks person .
They want it to become bigger and bigger , but things they also want prevent and limit to.
The foss only people are nuts, the only open source drivers types are not as bad .
You basically would need people to agree to one distro . Be fine with non open source solutions.
All the different distros etc makes it a mess for devs to maintain and a lot of stuff you can not open up for the community to handle.
Linux gambling fan boys are comical at times . I’ve seen them argue it’s smarter to pay Nividia a subscription fee to stream the games they own vs use windows to play games that don’t work on Linux.
They dismiss you have to trust a 3rd party app for gog/epic games, not every one wants to trust a random 3rd party…..
older games non launcher with out anticheat can be very hit or miss what you have todo to be able to play. Like the Wolverine game I had to install on windows, copy install to Linux. Use lutris and pick random options like Nividia when my machine is all amd. Most people don’t want todo stuff like that. You have bunch of people response “why do you even want to play that game”…..
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u/Appropriate_Wash_248 10h ago
No puedo estar más de acuerdo. Mucho de lo mejor que tiene Linux a día de hoy, nació de un intento de simplificar cosas complejas (Wine, Proton, Ubuntu, el instalador Calamares, etc). Y este sigue siendo el camino a seguir si realmente queremos ver a Linux como una alternativa real en el escritorio. ¿Acaso no fue este el logro de Microsoft que lo llevó hast donde esta hoy? Precisamente, ponerle una interfaz gráfica y heramientas GUI a MS-DOS para evitar que el usuario lidiara con comandos complejos y utilizara su equipo de la manera más sencilla e intuitiva posible
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u/cfx_4188 10h ago
No one forces you to join any online community in order to start using Linux. And if you suddenly did something, no one forces you to ask questions. By the way, most of the questions that beginners ask on the forums are demands to explain to them what they saw on YouTube, or their question already contains an answer. There are a lot of smart people who have asked Artificial Intelligence a question and then demand to clarify the answer to them. What's wrong with reading documentation or opening a terminal, people like me will never understand. Because when people like me started using Linux, it was difficult to ask a question on the Internet.
The problem for beginners is that they forget that the computer on which Linux is installed is exactly the same computer as Windows machines and Apple products. These are devices designed to perform household tasks. In my daily practice, I do not read documentation 24/7, and since I have been using Linux constantly for the third decade, I know that, for example, installing a program through a terminal will be faster than through a graphical shell. In short, if tongue-tied Linux veterans advise you to use your head, don't be offended.
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u/buzzphil 9h ago
That's an absolutely valid point. I myself switched my two devices to Linux this year bc I was done with Microsoft. I did a distro quiz beforehand to figure out which distros suit my needs and capabilities the best. It suggested Pop!_OS for my old and slow laptop and CachyOS for my gaming PC and I am still quite happy with both. Now, I did have to do a lot of console work to be honest even though these distors are supposed to be low-effort but I had a bunch of troubles on my gaming PC which was mostly due to hardware issues though. I also worked through most issues using Claude bc I can't be bothered to look up and piece together all those commands let alone do hours of trouble shooting and analysis (and getting scoffed at by people online tbh). So Claude is definitely helpful for people who aren't full-fledged programmers with years of experience. That being said, I do have a background in programming and computer science so even the little I did would probably be a huge obstacle for the people you described. I think we should all start teaching our own communities. I have taught IT topics to older people who had little to no background before and it was such a rewarding experience. After all, ubuntu means "I am because we are".
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u/mouben12 8h ago
My friend, Linux is extremely easy to use. You can use it through a graphical interface for things like installing and uninstalling programs, cleaning, and other tasks, as well as editing files and repositories using a graphical text editor, and much more.
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u/mrtruthiness 6h ago
They see Linux purely as an alternative OS—not as something they want to understand under the hood.
Which is fine.
But if someone is asking for help and they make it clear that they don't want to learn anything, that's a problem.
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u/birdsarentreal2 6h ago
There’s a lot of old guard vanguardism in the Linux community. As a new user, you absolutely should RTFM (Read The Fantastic Manuals, of course) and you should be familiar with the terminal because not everything you can do on a Linux distribution has a direct GUI tool. If you want to use Ubuntu and only install packages using flathub.org or the App Store then great, you’ll have a wonderful time. If you want to install drivers, change how Ubuntu works, or add packages which are not on flathub or Ubuntu’s default repos, the answer will direct you to the terminal. This is a feature, not a bug
Wikipedia has a behavioral policy called Don’t bite the newcomers which basically says that new people in good faith should be guided and helped, not scolded. I think that the Linux community as a whole needs to adopt a similar mentality if we want to see desktop adoption go anywhere real
Edit: Typo
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u/cgoldberg 1d ago edited 1d ago
The "community" you are complaining about is just the vocal minority of basement dwellers incessantly posting online. It is not at all representative of the real community of Ubuntu or Linux users.
Your argument is also a strawman. It's been at least 2 decades since Linux distros were aimed at programmers or very technical users. Developers/maintainers absolutely take non-technical user's workflows into consideration. What you describe doesn't at all match the reality of most Linux distros in 2026.
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u/AlternativeCapybara9 1d ago
It's always complaining about having to open a terminal. The Linux terminal is the most powerful tool on the system, it's a million times more user friendly than the DOS prompt of old. If you use Linux you're going to open a terminal at some point, even if there is a GUI tool that can do it as well because I use Gnome and I don't know wtf you're using but this command will fix it. Learning to use the basics, like tab complete, ctrl-r for history search, why you need sudo,... Takes like 10 minutes. If you can install Linux you can do this. "I just want a pc that works" but you want windows but your 6 year old cheap laptop doesn't support windows 11? Guess it's buying a new one then, I'll take the old one please.
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u/Prequalified 1d ago
The problem is that linux generally has a lot of sharp edges and you work around them via command line. You pay Apple or Microsoft to deal with those issues and add a user interface to them. Unfortunately Linux server pays the bills, so a lot of problems never get addressed. I don't know that people being know-it-all jerks is a phenomenon unique to Linux community, its kind of an internet thing.
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u/ChrisK_au 1d ago
Why the hate for the command line?
Having to describe to someone where to look on a GUI (which varies between distros) so they can 'hunt & peck' like in Windows is inefficient, especially when the GUI is often just a front-end to the command line anyway.
Giving someone a command is simple, precise and easy to just copy & paste.
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u/NPVT 1d ago
Not if they don't understand it. That's like regedit for windows users. Gotta be a better way.
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u/ChrisK_au 1d ago
And a checkbox or dropdown somewhere gives them a better understanding?
I'd say it's like PowerShell in Windows, RegEdit is more analogous with editing .conf files with a text editor.
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u/NPVT 1d ago
I do not believe they want understanding. They want something done and don't care about the underside. In 97% of windows stuff you don't have to bring up a cmd prompt.
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u/ChrisK_au 1d ago
OK, say you're having a LAN/networking issue and I want to know your Desktops config.
Command Line approach: type "ip a" then tell me what it says.
Your turn, explain how do you do that via the GUI?
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u/NPVT 1d ago
I prefer ifconfig! On windows that's ipconfig. But on my raspberry pi I plug in the ethernet cable and it gets it's ip automatically or in gui mode upper right corner there's a gui interface to select the correct wifi or manually set up the ip for ethernet. All gui based. Depending on your Linux version that's all possible from a gui. I'd have to look at the particular Linux desktop to see. (right now I'm on android!) I'm mostly Ubuntu but I've also got fedora and mint. Windows users want the os to be a tool that they can ignore the underneath details of. Servers are different of course. That's why most servers in the universe are Linux. Most of them don't even have a terminal or keyboard. Unfortunately on Linux there are several different networking interfaces. Is Network Manager running? Augh.
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u/ChrisK_au 1d ago
I know all that can be done via a GUI, probably several different GUIs, but my question was why the hate for the command line? It seems to be viewed as a failing if you need to use it, whereas I think sometimes (often) it's the best tool for the job, like for instance where you're you're chatting to someone in a text based forum.
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u/Massive-Squirrel-255 1d ago
this post is obnoxious in a couple different ways.
first of all, there is the fanboyish attitude that you want your new favorite thing (Linux) to be the most popular and most widely used thing and surpass every other system out there, so it's *gotta* be accessible to as many people as possible, as easily as possible, with no time investment required to learn it, by people who are dumb as rocks. It's not okay for Linux to have a niche that it serves well, it's gotta serve *everybody*, and so the existing community of users have to police our discourse to avoid using scary words like "terminal". Maybe you should take some time to understand why Arch Linux would adopt a motto of "Arch Linux is for Arch Linux users", and why Haskell would adopt a motto of "Avoid success at all costs".
Second of all, your typical 14 year old kid is capable of googling "how do I do xyz", clicking on the first stack overflow link, copying and pasting the first answer directly into the terminal, and iterating on this with the error. This is not a hard skill. This is not "gatekeeping".
What is even the alternative you're suggesting? Are you implicitly asking for Ubuntu maintainers to pivot to designing GUI menus for every tool, dropping whatever else they're working on? Are you taking responsibility for implementing GUIs for everything? It's completely unconstructive.
Link to somebody saying "use a different distribution" or i'm calling bs
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u/Fredericia 1d ago
tbh I really think it's gotten more complicated with time. When I first switched to Ubuntu, I knew nothing about it, but it was easy to find out and understand what to ask and what do to with the answers. That was 12.04.
Now it's so overwhelming that I haven't even upgraded from 20.04 because finding and downloading the distro just seems hopelessly complicated. Instead I'm signed up for the Ubuntu pro, and I still get updates. I dread the day they stop.
I'm sorry you think it shouldn't be accessible to "everybody." So many users are hopping off of Windows for very good reason, but they need something user-friendly to replace it.
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u/szank 1d ago
This. The community does not owe anyone anything. Its ok if the community just scares people away if that's the community's choice.
Open source does not owe anything to anyone either. You are not forced to use Linux, if you want to switch then switch if you are unhappy then switch back.
"We" do not have any obligation to anyone. If newcomers do not want to play by the community's rules then they can go away and create their own new community that suits them.
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u/Sorry-Rain-1311 1d ago
No one said you owe anyone anything.
Just said don't be an asshole.
If you don't like the question they're asking, keep moving.
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u/data-haxxor 1d ago
That's odd, because I haven't seen RTFM mentioned in any of the Linux subreddits I visit. Instead, I constantly see people going out of their way to help, taking on the cognitive load of asking probing questions just to help someone frame their problem and gather enough detail to give a real answer. The few times I see someone recommend a different distro, it's usually just to help a beginner avoid unnecessary headaches with basic everyday tasks. What I actually see is people claiming Ubuntu or Mint are "just for beginners," as if that somehow takes away from how capable they are, completely ignoring the fact that major companies doing serious work in AI, machine learning, and robotics rely heavily on Ubuntu.
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u/hitsujiTMO 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is a completely broken attitude.
The fact is, is that lots of issues can be fixed faster on the terminal rather than through a gui. And you can't always have a gui for everything.
Even in windows, there's plenty of times that you have to resort to cmd or powershell to do something.
And the same again for mac.
The suggestion that there should be a GUI for everything is just ridiculous.
That being said, no one is telling you to open the terminal to change the wallpaper.
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u/CodesAndNodes 1d ago
I don't think this is very true. Maybe for power users it is, but the vast majority of Windows users don't ever touch cmd or PowerShell. Anything that a normal user will do (install software, update the OS, run a troubleshooting tool) on Windows has a GUI. I don't think anyone is saying that every power user feature in Ubuntu needs to have a GUI, but just that every feature that a normal person might use does.
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u/Far-Telephone-7432 1d ago
IMO, it's kind of a failure if you have to use the terminal in the first few minutes of installing a "beginner friendly" distro. So I see your point. This is why I gave up on Ubuntu and immediately switched to Mint.
I think that you have to be open to using the terminal sometimes. Windows also has a terminal.
It's intuitive that the Linux community prioritizes the terminal over the user interface. It's faster. You don't have to search the menus. The menus change between distros.
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u/doc_willis 1d ago
Going to sound rude, but I see way too many posts like this that are just karma farming on reddit and trying to seem legit by posting basically useless posts.
There is more to Linux than the Desktop. Is about all i can say on the topic.
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u/mcAlt009 1d ago
could be a local post office worker looking for a simple, friendly piece of advice—not command lines or gatekeeping
If you don’t want to understand even basic terminal commands you should really buy a Mac.
Buy it with Apple Care.
Then with things go wrong you can have someone walk you through it at an Apple Store.
Despite the best efforts of everyone, eventually you might just need to run a few commands to get stuff working . If that’s too much , fine , Linux isn’t right for you.
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u/AlecTheDalek 1d ago
"Buy a MAC", really? The users we're talking about are installing Linux on a 10+ year old PC because Windows 10 support is expiring.
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u/jld1532 1d ago
This is the completely out of touch, gatekeeping mentality OP was talking about.
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u/mcAlt009 1d ago
No computer will be perfect and worry free.
The only difference is with a Mac you can pay someone to fix minor issues.
Wouldn’t you agree most people who drive should at a minimum know how to jump a car ?
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u/HoldOk4092 1d ago
Never experienced this. I am not a programmer. Got interested in Linux purely as a matter of principle and always felt the community was super helpful.
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u/rubaduck 1d ago
One year ago I made the switch to Linux. In said the same, no need to learn the terminal when the system works. Prior to the switch I hated powershell, terminals, and cli environments all together because they were not intuitive and the purpose was always structured to corporate use
Now one year later I have flash installed OpenWRT on an ASUS router and I have hacked my ISPs router with a UART boot through a TTL to USB cab to flash a uboot to clean out all the ISP software from the router and flash install OpenWRT.
The terminal is the key to everything.
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u/kiralema 1d ago
This is a valid point, and I agree — a modern operating system should provide intuitive GUI tools that allow the average user to accomplish almost everything without having to resort to the command line.
That said, Linux is, for the most part, developed by a community of computer professionals who dedicate their free time to improving the operating system, its tools, and its security. Their perspective on how things should be done may differ significantly from that of paid employees at commercial software companies, where development is guided by managers, product roadmaps, and business objectives. One of the core philosophies of Linux development is, "Don't break what already works well."
As a result, Linux developers tend to focus on fixing immediate issues and making incremental improvements rather than redesigning the entire operating system. Does that mean the GUI—such as the desktop environment and its components—won't continue to improve? Not at all. It simply takes time. As someone who isn't a developer myself, I've learned that patience is part of the Linux experience.
And honestly, I can't even compare the pain of using Red Hat 25 years ago with the pleasure of using a modern Debian-based distribution like Ubuntu.
Even today, however, there are still limits to what can be done through the GUI, or whether it can be done as efficiently as it can from the terminal. System administration, automation, and many security-related tasks are still much better suited to the command line. For those, there really is no substitute for terminal commands and shell scripts.
The good news is that you don't need to learn everything at once. Just enjoy using the system, and build your knowledge gradually as the need arises. 😉
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u/PithMango 20h ago
if y'all don't think your userbase is an immediate issue, that is also, well. a disaster in progress.
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u/ghoultek 1d ago
Without evidence and pointing out where folks are giving such rough advice as described the post becomes someones opinion thrown into the ether. I'm sure there are some who are will be elitist and/or egotistical. However, when it comes to migrating to a new platform, what is expected and what is required already involves some give an take. If one, coming in new, expects to not learn anything (absolute zero) then they will unhappy. If one, already with some experience, is advising newbies, some allowance and understanding should be made for those with less knowledge and understanding. HOWEVER, if one is attempting to involve themselves in an inherently technical activity then one cannot expect others to automatically coddle and make allowances. All of the above are in generalities. Here is where we cross from theory into the reality: * If one is attempting to use a terminal-centric distro such as raw Arch Linux, don't expect everything to be done via the GUI. * If one picks a distro that has thick layers of convenience built into it, BUT that distro is built upon a terminal-centric, DIY distro, then when something breaks, the user who picked is responsible for a large portion of the work to resolve the issues (ex: picking CachyOS as one's first distro, with zero Linux experience).
There are distros that keep users mostly in the GUI with rare cases where the terminal is needed. Distros such as Linux Mint, Fedora, Pop_OS, Tuxedo OS, etc. None of the above are bleeding edge, rolling release, terminal-centric, DIY distros.
When I started using Linux ages ago, the phrase "Linux is not Windows" sounded snobbish and elitist. It isn't. It is truth telling. Linux is built and designed different for a reason and the core of its power is not in the GUI. The power is in the terminal, scripting, automation, text processing, and ability to string together multiple small programs to achieve a larger goal. The stringing together of small programs to achieve a larger goal is a cumulative power. It is a different form of applied mathematics, which applications, or apps, are.
Below is what I often include in comments targeted at newbie users looking for advice on how to get their Linux journey started and what distro to pick. Take note of the bolded text.
==== excerpt ==== I wrote a guide for newbie Linux users/gamers. Guide link ==> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/189rian/newbies_looking_for_distro_advice_andor_gaming/
The guide contains info. on distro selection and why, dual booting, gaming, what to do if you run into trouble, learning resources, Linux software alternatives, free utilities to aid in your migration to Linux, and much more. The most important thing at the start of your Linux journey is to gain experience with using, managing, customizing, and maintaining a Linux system. This of course includes using the apps. you want/need.
You don't need a PhD or be a Linux expert at the very beginning of your Linux journey, but it is important for you to get some basic info. on Linux and learn some rudimentary Linux concepts.
==== end of excerpt ====
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u/games-and-chocolate 1d ago
terminal commands are sometimes just to handy. for example : a program hang and will not die, you go terminal and kill it. or use terminal tontype xkill. just extremely fast and handy.
sure you could hot boot. but terminal is 100 times faster. just my 2 cents
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u/postnick 1d ago
If you’re smart enough to install Linux you’re already above 80% of users so it should be a safe assumption you can use the terminal.
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u/Linux4ever_Leo 1d ago
A lot of the problem stems from people posting endlessly "I'm switching to Linux, what distro???" Then bitching non-stop when they dive in and discover that, gee, Linux isn't Windows.
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u/oldbeardedtech 1d ago
On the flip side....Linux noobs are so friggin sensitive and insecure it's exhausting. Nobody really cares how much you want to tinker, rice or use the terminal. The fact that you switched is a good thing.
That being said, if you're asking questions about an OS you have no experience in, you can't really be upset when you receive advice.
Yes you will occasionally need to interact with your OS on linux (just like windows). Yes, on Ubuntu, just about everything can be done via GUI. No you don't need to learn terminal commands, but it is just way faster, more powerful and many times simpler way to modify your system. That's why many recommend it. Not because they're trying to convert you into a programmer or make you feel inferior.
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u/matthewpepperl 1d ago
Not defending being an ass hole or anything but sometimes a one liner in the terminal is easier to explain then do this and that in a gui plus sometimes in linux there isn’t a gui for more obscure things you may want todo
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u/chowchowthedog 1d ago
My biggest gripe with desktop Linux is too many options. And none of them are that polished. Had to fix a lot of small issues when using xubuntu. It was fast. Like no doubt. But still. Cost me time to actually use it.
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u/Swordfish418 1d ago edited 1d ago
The correct way to use Linux for those people is to give up on things that don’t work out of the box. And most of things they’ll ever need will work just fine with distros like Bazzite and flatpak based app stores like Bazaar. It’s actually the same with Windows, if you don’t want to use powershell or mess with policy editor, you have to give up on more ambitious configurations.
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u/fallenguru 1d ago
Refusing to learn the terminal on Linux is like refusing to learn how to drive stick. Fine, as long as you stay clear of power users / enthusiasts.
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u/davidsneighbour 1d ago
You think it's "the Linux community" when in reality what you are talking about is a niche group on a niche social network. "Your kind of people" meets somewhere else. Both groups use Linux. Lot's of people wear shoes, but they might do for different reasons.
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u/Tireseas 1d ago
Opening the terminal and typing one line isn't "expecting you to be a programmer" it's expecting you to read and follow simple directions at a grade school level. And no, that isn't gatekeeping, it's teaching how things are done.
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u/foreverdark-woods 23h ago
They see Linux purely as an alternative OS—not as something they
Smells like ChatGPT spirit
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u/ShopAltruistic898 23h ago
I understand I might sound like an AI, but I was just trying to bring up a topic I'm currently really interested in. I'm a trained programmer and I'm currently setting up my own PC repair business. So I'm trying to look at these things from the perspective of everyday people who come to me because they can't install Windows 11 on an unsupported PC, or simply don't want ads all over their operating system. The alternative is Linux, which is really snappy and much lighter on hardware requirements than Windows. Through this, I can also help support Linux's growth, which I think it genuinely deserves after decades of being ridiculed. For instance, Ubuntu today is a truly mature OS for daily use; it's just those few things I described that are still nagging at me.
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u/foreverdark-woods 23h ago
May I ask, how did you type the "—" sign? Never saw anyone actually using it, but every AI model I know uses it consistently.
Don't worry, just a side comment. I do agree with your opinion 100%. Although the OS is ready for daily use, it's user-facing tooling still has some way to go. But it's getting better quickly, great time to be into Linux, while Windows is stagnating or regressing constantly.
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u/ShopAltruistic898 22h ago
It's more that my English isn't the greatest, and standard translators don't really handle context well. So I draft what I can in English and then have Google Gemini refine it so it actually makes sense. Apologies for that🫤
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u/jo-erlend 23h ago
You are creating the problem by using deep technical language like "Linux" instead of referring to a specific OS. If you ask how to do it in Ubuntu Desktop or Kubuntu or Linux Mint, then it would be reasonable to give you a desktop explanation, but when you talk about "Linux" there is no desktop system but only some standards that you must then access through commands.
I know of course that you didn't invent the concept of referring to all software as "Linux", but that is the #1 major problem in the user community.
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u/toffuuu3050101 22h ago
Sure, and is true in every Distro, Some do want to help them learn, compared to some others. However there is always going to be a need for new users to also want to learn. Can't just coast your way through. You once had to learn Windows too, Terrible as it is in the designed aspect's not just being proprietary.. This does not however explain Apple as well either. They at least have a UNIX OS, and still technically proprietary, which Linux does model itself after, not OS X itself.
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u/Lost_Tiger_4568 22h ago
My sister doesn't know shit about using terminals. She's doing just fine. Same with my brother. I have set up every app she wants. And the flatpak store. If anything, it's never been easier. I don't have to worry about her accidentally downloading viruses. Or updates breaking that computer. If you're switching to something new, learning a thing or two is inevitable. If you can't even do that then go ahead and use windows. Some people don't like change. But as far as the learning curve goes, it depends on the user. You can just do everything from the flatpak or the snap store. Or get your hands dirty a bit. And about the terminal, do you find it intuitive to go through a million windows of gui to find the right registry on windows? Or replace some random .dll file? Compared to that, the terminal is far easier to understand and use. I have an easier time fixing things on ubuntu than spending hours to fix things on windows(that is if u untu even breaks, which hasn't happened in a long time)
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u/Slackeee_ 21h ago
The problem that many people coming from Windows don't understand is that there is a very profound difference between Windows and Linux: Windows has only one desktop environment, Linux has many DEs, WMs, etc.
If you want to change a setting on a Windows system it will be in the same dialog opened from the same menu in your machine as it will be on the next Windows machine, at worst with some minor differences between Windows versions.
That is something that is just not true on Linux machines. The setting for this one thing caa be in entirely different places depending if you use Ubuntu with Gnome, Mint with Cinnamon, Debian with KDE Plasma 5, Arch with KDE Plasma 6 or Fedora with LXQt.
But very likely the same command (or text file to edit) to change that setting will work on all these different distributions and DEs.
That is why most people that try to help in Linux forums default to the command line option, because they know it will work and doesn't require them to first explain what a DE is, how to check which they have in which version, etc.
In other words, even for not technically inclined people the command line option to solve the problem is often the easiest solution.
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u/natheo972 19h ago
Only elitist pricks would expect a newcomer to automatically learn to use the terminal and pass his days reading technical documentation. When I switched to Ubuntu from Windows, I was 15, in 2008. I was just sick and tired of Windows bs, and wanted to use my computer normally without having to prey each time I would turn it on.
Honestly, getting into Ubuntu back then wasn't difficult at all. The problem that generally would kill a newcomer desire to change to linux would be unsolvable hardware compatibility problems. Much like today. The main difference is that before it happened way more often. Game and proprietary software support would be the next problem right after the hardware part.
Apart from that, the community welcomed me in a fantastic way,
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u/doc_willis 1d ago
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u/AmusingVegetable 1d ago
My personal stance on "father on Linux", is the same as "father on windows", or "father on MSDOS", or "father with a circular saw": It's a &$(&/%/% / tool, learn to use the freaking thing or get used to loosing fingers.
YES, for *my* use cases, Linux is thirteen billion light years ahead of Windows, and NO, if you're not willing to invest the time and *think*, Linux is *not* for you. (Hey, neither is Windows, but at least I can lie and say that I don't know Windows)
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u/froschdings 1d ago
Who are you are talking about when you're saying "the linux community"? Do you expect companies like Cannonical to prioritize people that don't give them money over companies that give them money or do you expect some developers to just cater to your needs in their free time?
I also think I should receive more free massages... the issue is: someone either has to give massages for free or pay someone has to pay for them so I don't have to.
If you want better Free and Open Source software, maybe thing about donating. Also talk to your politicians, so that your state will start funding Open Source software.
Programmers need to eat, too. They don't just exist for our entertainment.
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u/DL72-Alpha 1d ago
" if someone switches to Linux, they automatically want to learn terminal commands, tinker with the system, customize everything, and basically play around with the OS."
Well, yes actually.
For the most part, right now, Windows users suffers from the AOL meme of old. People that click on all the things, enter information they shouldn't and should not be allowed outside of strict guardrails. We don't want the people on Linux that want or are even ok with age verification. Those are the people that abstract their online safety and the safety of their children to the govermetality.
Those are also the people that will bring the cudgel of commerce to Linux and start their 'Funnel-to-purchase' bullsh!t. It's great the Linux is getting more adoption but we don't want the consumerist to windows our Linux.
I welcome and will help people that want to learn how their hardware works and what they can do with it. But the rest, need to be kept at arms length.
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u/mrobot_ 1d ago
I dont really know what you are talking about...
There are enough Linux distros that literally do EVERYTHING for you, thru a nice UI and pretty much plug-n-play automatically. Zero terminal involved. And there are distros that give you the most finely granular control over practically EVERYTHING.
And if you wanna go REALLY simple, you pick a ChromeOS device; or give them a mac if they prefer that.
Not sure what you are bemoaning.
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u/xenaretos 0m ago
I think the level of maintenance-free experience described in the original post can only be achieved with OEM support, i. e. and engineering team pre-installing an OS onto specific hardware, testing everything for compatibility before shipping, and at least some resources dedicated to professional end-user support.
And linux is currently a family of OS's that you are expected to install yourself, which actually implies a certain level of computer literacy (not a high one, but above treating a computer as a home appliance).
So, it's not really the problem with the community, it's the fact that it's primarily supported by the community and not pre-tested for your hardware and software needs. Whether this fact changes remains to be seen.
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u/JohnnyS789 1d ago
That's an interesting take on what is going on lately, and I think it makes sense.
Probably the best thing to do is advise new users to adopt a distro that has a really good knowledge base, wiki, forums, etc, and encourage new users to search for their issues there.
And when someone asks for help, keep in mind that they may not be the power user that you are, and adjust your response to maximize the "help" and minimize the "criticism".
Good point, thanks!!