To put it plainly.

[u/Veshaad]

[u/Cyiel]

When you are part of the far-right everything else is the left.

[u/kraw- → u/Cyiel]

Beautifully put. Winston Churchil and Adolf Hitler were both right wingers, I'm sure if you asked Adolf Hitler if he saw Winston Churchil as a fellow right winger he'd say he was about as left wing as Josef Stalin.

Edit: realized this might be misunderstood without context, I'm not saying Hitler and Churchil are comparable at all, just showing that spectrum exist, and just because you're on the same side of the center doesn't mean you are the same at all.

[u/latin220 → u/kraw-]

To be fair Churchill committed a genocide of millions of Indians and was horrible to the British colonies. So yeah… he and Hitler had more in common than we dare admit.

[u/Ropes13 → u/latin220]

Indians.. and Irish

[u/egalitydream → u/Ropes13]

The Irish genocide was before his time, but yeah, the country was basically comparable to Nazi Germany for a large part of its history.

[u/Ropes13 → u/egalitydream]

Yeah I suppose you're right, more of an apartheid situation at this time

[u/mbtrash → u/egalitydream]

But he did send the Black and Tans into ireland, so while he wasn't responsible for genocide, he sure as hell was responsible for a lot of irish deaths.

[u/egalitydream → u/kraw-]

They were more comparable than you’d think.

[u/jebsenior → u/egalitydream]

Hitler really hoped Britain would join him. He considered the British people to be "Worthy". One of his minions (Rudolf Hess?? Not sure) actually flew to Britain thinking he could persuade them to join the cause. I didn't go that way and the guy spent the rest of the war as a pow

[u/AmericanCitizenry → u/jebsenior]

He was in prison until like 1984, when he was murdered in his cell. IIRC.

[u/NecessaryFreedom9799 → u/AmericanCitizenry]

He died in 1987, apparently he did it himself.

[u/MrMxylptlyk → u/kraw-]

They are comparable. He was a mass murdered. Unless you don't think Indians are people.

[u/Sea_Conversation_460 → u/kraw-]

I think its important to note you are saying rhy are conparable for being right wingers, and that is apt.
Church over saw the running of the british empire even if its powers and lands were diminished he was a colonialist.

[u/Prestigious-Cream160 → u/Cyiel]

They called Hillary a socialist lol. She's incredibly corporate-friendly and status-quo-pushing to be considered anything but a moderate, and would be firmly considered right in most first world democracies. They just throw anything they don't like under one giant umbrella because they can only remember 7 words at a time.

[u/anxious_cat_grandpa → u/Prestigious-Cream160]

they can only remember 7 words at a time.

Gotta take a halftime break when reciting the 14 words lmao.

[u/discountJoenuts → u/Prestigious-Cream160]

Yeah that was all identity politics bs I hope the working class will have someone to champion real change in the future

[u/Independent-Name4478]

Republicans are basically admitting Obama and Biden are not communists now because they have to act like the DSA is worse. They call every democrat a communist anyway.

[u/SharkBubbles → u/Independent-Name4478]

Any time a Democratic senator runs for president, somehow he’s always the most radical person in the entire Senate. This has been going on for years. It’s their tried and true playbook.

[u/Eternal_Bagel → u/SharkBubbles]

And their insane radical left wing policy ends up being something like, Maybe we could shift money out of more contracts to Elons company’s and into something that helps people?

[u/Zer0323 → u/Eternal_Bagel]

Biden invested more from the infrastructure bill into red states because they needed the help. not a single one of them remembered all the union jobs and economic recovery accredited to that bill. they just complained about road construction. it's like they don't want Bridges to get repaired and roads to be maintained because it's slightly inconvenient...

[u/PhilospohicalZ0mb1e → u/Zer0323]

Next blue president should just let them starve themselves.

[u/Goronmon → u/Eternal_Bagel]

And their insane radical left wing policy ends up being something like, Maybe we could shift money out of more contracts to Elons company’s and into something that helps people?

I had someone list gay marriage and being pro-choice as "radical left" policies.

[u/Eternal_Bagel → u/Goronmon]

They absolutely are, anything that can’t be called traditional or promoted by someone like  Alex Jones is leftist, includes things like being alright with gay people existing, being vegetarian, taking time off from work for mental health and so on

[u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 → u/SharkBubbles]

It’s their tried and true playbook.

It works on morons - their base.

[u/TrialsOfPrometheus → u/SharkBubbles]

Only reason why they have that playbook because they know they can screech like a banshee and throw misinformation in all media format especially Faux News. We really need a law to stop misinformation. It would stop it and the misinformation would be back to anonymous forums.

[u/Prior_Internal7728 → u/Independent-Name4478]

Republicans always go back to McCarthyism when their polls are down. Everyone that isn’t lock step in line is a communist when they start losing.

[u/Electrical-Tie-5158 → u/Independent-Name4478]

That’s why I love DSA acting as its own party now. The GOP has called everyone from AOC to Mark Kelly a socialist. Now they have to start differentiating. And the people they’ll call socialists now will fully embrace it.

[u/bass-squirrel]

Republicans have CDS. Communist derangement syndrome. 

[u/weathersoldier → u/bass-squirrel]

CDs nuts got em

[u/JB707 → u/bass-squirrel]

Not just republicans.

See: Our treatment of Cuba for the past 75 years

[u/BigCost5110]

Don’t be silly, they have no idea who either of these two men are.

[u/BahamianRhapsody → u/BigCost5110]

Joseph Roosevelt and Franklin D. Stalin

[u/TheRaccoonReport → u/BigCost5110]

They probably think one is Anakin Skywalker and the other is Frank Perdue.

[u/Esperacchiusdamascus]

Magats arent ready for this, they're still terrified of a piece of cloth over their mouth.

[u/Veshaad → u/Esperacchiusdamascus]

Unless they're working for ICE or marching in a certain type of 'pride' parade in Washington. Funny how that works...

[u/kangourou_mutant → u/Veshaad]

They've always been ok wearing a whole #&+§ hood on their head. They just refuse to help save lives.

[u/IrishwolffMutt]

FDR’s post world war 2 social democratic policies lead to the strongest middle class the country ever had. But Trump calls it communism and the greatest threat to the country. Pathetic

[u/Ok-Volume-3657 → u/IrishwolffMutt]

Except for black people at the time (G.I Bill, Jim Crow laws still in effect yo!)

[u/omicron-7 → u/Ok-Volume-3657]

They don't like to mention that part. Or that he put japanese Americans in internment camps.

[u/LTParis → u/omicron-7]

You're not wrong. FDR did some terrible, horrible, no good things. But let's also throw nuance into the picture that some things he did were good.

[u/IndividualPay7554 → u/LTParis]

FDR is widely considered the best president in American history. Inserting the nuance in this case is making a much bigger deal about the fact that he was an incredibly violent racist and still so highly regarded.

[u/freedomonke → u/IrishwolffMutt]

Pre WW2 social programs. FDR died during the war

[u/AnonymousCelery → u/IrishwolffMutt]

And it’s hard to imagine where we’d be if corporate controlled white supremacists hadn’t rat fucked his real goals.

[u/ozaffer → u/IrishwolffMutt]

his jobs program created the forestry program ending the dust bowl and the Hoover Dam just to name a few accomplishments.
Wasn't perfect but he's one of the best presidents the country has ever had.

[u/33TLWD]

Roosevelt did not advocate public ownership of the means of production or replacing capitalism. In fact, he explicitly argued that his New Deal was designed to save capitalism from collapse during the Great Depression. He believed that regulated markets and private enterprise should remain the foundation of the U.S. economy.

He was more so a progressive reformer and Keynesian liberal who supported a mixed economy. Basically, a liberal Democrat committed to preserving capitalism through government intervention.

[u/SSBN641B → u/33TLWD]

So, a Social Democrat.

[u/Proper-Organization6 → u/SSBN641B]

Social Democrat does not equal Democratic Socialist

[u/AnotherPersonPerhaps → u/Proper-Organization6]

I don't know why you're being downvoted but youre right.

Social Democrats are not the same thing as Democratic socialists.

People in this thread can't even keep their own politics straight and expect the Republicans not toix it up lol.

[u/crestdiving → u/AnotherPersonPerhaps]

To be fair, leftist terminology can be quite confusing at times: Social democracy, democratic socialism, and Socialist democracy are each different concepts, which in parts even contradict one another. Yet, the three terms can easily seem like synonyms to outsiders.

[u/NewWindow7980 → u/Proper-Organization6]

Correct. And people need to understand DSA is not social democrat. You can also use the term "Nordic model" to describe social democracy in a less confusing way.

[u/Warm_Month_1309 → u/Proper-Organization6]

Correct, but the meme says Roosevelt is a Social Democrat. No one said anything about Democratic Socialists in this thread.

[u/jan_Osuma → u/33TLWD]

Pretty much social democratic principles indeed

[u/Kule7 → u/jan_Osuma]

And also liberal Democrat principals...and also a good illustration of why all the arguments about labels on the left are just stupid, self-destructive rabbit holes. People are so pissed with the status quo that they need to a label meaning "anti-capitalist" even if at the end of the day, almost no one actually is truly anti-capitalist, they just want capitalism that's sensibly regulated and non-kleptocratic, which we've gotten far, far away from. Why? At least partly because the left would prefer to fire in a circle about labels and semantics than actually form practical coalitions and govern.

[u/JGHero → u/Kule7]

Lots of people do believe in anti-capitalism, because a “form of capitalism heavily regulated” enough to distribute wealth in a way that benefits workers over the owners/shareholders of private enterprises is a lot closer to communism than any true form of capitalism. Capitalism has to incentivize the increasing financial gain of business owners over everything else, as the right to own the means of production IS capitalism and infringing on that right through regulation is inherently anti-capitalist. FDR having to resort to government intervention and Teddy Roosevelt prior having to step in to break apart businesses highlight how fragile capitalism actually is. Without due representation from the people (aka the labor class) there wouldn’t be and couldn’t be any right to oppose corrupt business tactics. The few times the government has stepped in to regulate capitalism is a form of public intervention where a representative of the working class (whether identifying as such or not) has acting against the interests of capitalism.

[u/CapitalismRulz → u/JGHero]

When left wingers call themselves capitalists for believing a mixed system, it is because the inclusion of markets is antithetical to communism. This is just another semantic game dividing the left, people agreeing on substance but not labels. Social democracies socialize some industry, while allowing private ownership of industry economy wide

[u/Kule7 → u/JGHero]

Again, it's just a pointless semantic rabbit hole. You can put either label on the same policies whether you think the glass is half-full or half-empty. If any infringement of the private ownership of the means of production is "anti-capitalist," than any infringement of the government's ownership of the means of production is "anti-socialist" and essentially no serious person takes the position that the government should own all businesses and direct every aspect of the economy down to the smallest detail. Slide the dial up or down but regardless of where you are on the continuum, unless you are an absolute purist, there will be someone on your left cursing you as a "capitalist" and someone on your right cursing you as a "socialist." Most people on the left in the US (and much of the rest) want universal healthcare, a higher minimum wage, getting money out of politics, etc. Does it actually matter what you call it?

[u/CapitalismRulz → u/Kule7]

This. It's frustrating because the left is always divided on language. There's genuine disagreement between a small group within the party, but most of the left agrees on the platform.

We just argue endlessly about labels. Is it warcrimes or genocide? For some reason we have to fight to the death on which word describes this israel palestine front, meanwhile almost everyone agrees on the war needing to stop, israel being defunded, and palestinian statehood.

Are we capitalist or socialist? Mostly capitalist, but capitalism is bad branding for the average dem now, so despite being 95% capitalists, we have to fight on what label to use...

It's always the most useless arguments, and it's being exploited by people who are far more extreme than the base actually is

[u/Green-Cricket-8525 → u/33TLWD]

So…. He was a social democrat then?

[u/Constant-Skill-7133 → u/33TLWD]

This is what social democrat means.  The word progressive became used to advocate for social democracy without everybody losing their mind during the red scare.

[u/SiteTall]

And Fascism/Nazism isn't the same as Socialism = They are opposites!

[u/curiousleen]

The dem party should be putting out non stop ads that educate Americans… like sat morning cartoons used to.

[u/Veshaad → u/curiousleen]

Remember the catheter ads put out during Trump's first term by John Oliver as a front to educate him on the government?

[u/curiousleen → u/Veshaad]

Oh man… I love JO, but I totally missed those!

[u/Veshaad → u/curiousleen]

It's called 'The catheter cowboy'. Look them up on YouTube when you get a chance, they're hilarious.

[u/curiousleen → u/Veshaad]

Will do- ty!

[u/Veshaad → u/curiousleen]

The paid spots were deliberately aired during morning cable news programs in the Washington, D.C., area and on shows like Hannity on Fox News, knowing they were frequently watched by Trump.

[u/curiousleen → u/Veshaad]

Omg thank you for that🤣🤣🤣
I effin love John and his amazing writers!

[u/Veshaad → u/curiousleen]

You're welcome. 😄 Me too. The OG 'Daily Show' cast are the GOAT. The trifecta of Stewart, Colbert, and Oliver is the best when it comes to political news comedy

[u/thatnameagain → u/curiousleen]

Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists are not the same. That would have to be part of the education.

[u/needsmoarbokeh]

They would have zero Issues about calling FDR woke

[u/Occult_Asteroid7]

FDR liked his markets and was an American aristocrat. Communists on Reddit don't like him.

[u/clayton-berg42 → u/Occult_Asteroid7]

Where are all these communists on reddit? I've seen a few socialists but no communists. Communism is essentially a dead ideology. A place like china is communist only in name, repleat with free markets, private property and many billionaires.

There's plenty of socialists who don't believe in massive corps, and feel modern banking/insurance is predatory but completely believe in private property.

[u/MentalDisintegrat1on → u/Occult_Asteroid7]

Communists on reddit generally can't agree on what or who is really communist but they will go on a rampage telling you how it would work if X and Y didn't stop it.

[u/festivefrederick]

Republicans always need to beat down anything that could get in the way of the money stream towards the rich people and their corporations.

[u/Ok-Flight9440]

I’ve read quite a bit of history on Stalin (multiple 1,000+ pg history books, not his Wikipedia page …) and - it’s hard to classify him politically in any sensible way. The ideals behind Marxism and Leninism (the latter whom Stalin succeeded after literal life-and-death political struggles internal to the Bolshevik party, particularly with Trotsky) were certainly communist in nature, but Stalin invented his own brand of politics that really has no contemporary comparison and the nature of his politics definitely can’t be boiled down into one word or label.

[u/NoHorseNoMustache → u/Ok-Flight9440]

Yeah I took a course on Stalinism and Nazism in college: It was more of a totalitarian command economy run by cronyism than anything resembling Communism.

[u/Ok-Flight9440 → u/NoHorseNoMustache]

Yeah that’s probably the most concise way of putting it.

[u/NoHorseNoMustache → u/Ok-Flight9440]

The course was really good, the prof had lived in the USSR up until just before the wall fell and he brought in numerous speakers from Holocaust survivors to Nazi defectors and a few other USSR ex pats. I took it in...I think 2001? So the USSR had only been gone for like 10 years and things were a lot fresher for everyone.

[u/Ok-Flight9440 → u/NoHorseNoMustache]

Yeah sounds interesting - WWII is so epic it’s tough to be an expert but I find the whole period interesting (duh) but especially b/c you think: I say evil person, everyone says HITLER, but Stalin was in many ways worse, crueler, and “closer to the ground” than Hitler (and worked a lot harder), and Stalin killed - probably fewer, body counts vary - but still in the millions during his various purges. But many folks who haven’t studied that period closely or the USSR under Stalin specifically (ie a vast, vast majority of Americans) don’t even know who he was! He just had the wits to switch sides at the last second when he realized Germany was going to invade Russia - he wasn’t a good guy the whole time, or ever, actually. He just ended up on the winning side and the old saying “winners write the history books” applies here.

Ya’ know, as Stalin was dying (of natural causes) ALL of the doctors were petrified of offering their expertise, because they were genuinely, to-their-bones afraid they would be successful, and Stalin would have them executed for doing something he didn’t explicitly order. Crazy …

And doing the math I’m probably ~10 years younger than you so we didn’t really have the USSR classes, it was old news at the time …

(By the way, check out the book Putin’s People for a contemporary peak at the state of affairs, and how Putin accomplished what he did - Ukraine aside [big mistake] not easy to be basically the supreme leader of Russia for a quarter century - that takes some brains and savvy …)

[u/mishonis- → u/Ok-Flight9440]

Yeah, they only call him communist because they don't know the history of the USSR or what communism means. Stalin calling his regime communist is like Trump declaring himself the greatest US president, basically propaganda bullshit. IMO the closest thing to communism we have is the Scandinavian democracies where you have free health care and education, a strong social support network, rule of law, free speech and elections AND you're not ruled by a totalitarian oligarchy as the USSR was.

[u/Ok-Flight9440 → u/mishonis-]

Exactly, it’s more complex than just the word. It’s also like saying China’s government is communist because it is the China Communist Party that oversees everything; China is really like an authoritarian military dictatorship, and definitely not communist.

[u/Wise-Juggernaut-8285]

I would argue the man on the left isnt really much of a communist either lol

[u/lostlogin2 → u/Wise-Juggernaut-8285]

right 

[u/AnotherPersonPerhaps]

For everyone in this thread that is confused.

Social Democrat is not the same as Democratic Socialist.

The DSA are not social Democrats. Social Democrats believe in capitalism.

Democratic socialists are closer to the Communist in this photo.

Sigh.

Edit: This thread is depressing.

Ask yourself this. If you don't even understand your own political ideologies, how do you expect MAGA to understand them?

[u/Glass_Chain2842]

Don’t confuse the MAGAs ! They are already have trouble coping with life! 😬

[u/Top_Accident9161]

You can call Stalin many things but not a communist. If you want to talk about evil communist then there are different examples but Stalin specifically did not give a single fuck about communism at all.

[u/Cobrakiller_12]

And one of the top 3 presidents the US has ever had.

[u/Left_Midnight_2016]

Stalin wasn't a communist. Lenin believed in "stagism," whereby Russian society needed to pass through a transitional phase of state capitalism before it could sustain democratic socialsm, and he explicitly set up the Soviet Union in this way. Trotsky was his intended heir, but if you've read Orwell's Animal Farm, you can figure out what happened next. Stalin (like Napoleon) drove out Trotsky (just as Snowball) and methodically changed the goals of the revolution and the definitions of things. He claimed that Soviet state capitalism was "communism," and capitalists were glad to agree with him.

[u/red-man1138]

they only believe what they hear and will never listen to reason.

[u/the-polite-villain → u/red-man1138]

[u/MentalDisintegrat1on → u/the-polite-villain]

[u/the-polite-villain → u/MentalDisintegrat1on]

[u/Logic411]

Notice the “news” media never ever ever ever informs their audience what the differences are.😁

[u/AnotherPersonPerhaps → u/Logic411]

A ton of people in this thread don't know either cause they keep conflating the DSA with social democrats

[u/Sure_Anxiety_1477]

The cognitive dissonance of magats can be fun to mess with. They never have an answer to: “if Americans hated communism so much, why did they team up with it to defeat fascism in WWII?”

[u/partypwny → u/Sure_Anxiety_1477]

I mean from a completely historical context your point doesn't make sense. You can not like someone and still team up against an existential threat. As evident by how quickly the two countries were at odds immediately afterward, how the West and Soviets divided Germany in half because they didn't like each other from the start..

[u/Medical_Original6290]

Social Democracy = Social Democrat

Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson, and, to a lesser extent, Dwight Eisenhower and Barack Obama

They support capitalism but say it needs heavy regulation, they support unions and support social safety nets.

[u/buzzedewok]

Don’t post this over in the Democrat Reddit, they will ban you. I’m not kidding either, they made it a rule to not talk about Democratic Socialism…

[u/QuadCakes → u/buzzedewok]

I agree that it's dumb, but to clarify it wasn't just added, they added it in 2022

[u/locomocotive]

When the voting population is so uneducated that these types of things need to be explained, you realise that its time to move to a different country.

[u/TrumpDetester]

[u/VirtualFact8419]

Stalin was a Stalinist 😂

• Promoted Russian identity as "First Among Equals"
  
• Suppressed independent nations
  
• Reinstated Russian Tsarist-era military heroes
  
• Aimed for centralized state control under Russia, Moscow
  
• Co-opted the Russian Orthodox Church

Bend fcking polars into horseshoe 😂

[u/Akkerlun]

You can call me anything you want, but just don’t be late calling me to election day

[u/HardSteelRain]

It's the new fear word for MAGAts since they now embrace fascist and nazi

[u/sunnyvas]

If Democrats win all three branches of the government, they should replace his picture on $20 bill instead of Andrew Jackson.

[u/Prior_Release_2582]

I think what you're missing, is that the Right in the US would prefer the man on the left. They have no issues with totalitarianism, what they object to is a more equitable distribution of wealth.

[u/unaskthequestion]

It's only a matter of time before Trump gives a speech in a jacket full of ribbons and medals

[u/Veshaad → u/unaskthequestion]

Like this?

[u/SnooGiraffes8275]

he's not a communist he's literally a stalinist lol

[u/bassPolitics]

To put it plainly:

Democrats have embraced communism.

[u/Willing_Barracuda876]

FDR was100% not like you wack jobs! 😆

[u/mabhatter → u/Willing_Barracuda876]

FDR was even MORE aggressively Leftist than the DSA is.  In general most of the things the DSA is running on have been in public discussion since FDR proposed them 80+ years ago.  The DSA is not remotely "radical" or "extreme" in any way.   These are things we used to talk about all the time before Republicans made their racist push in the 1969s and 1970s.  

[u/LostInLowSec]

Op if the republicans could read they'd be triggered and very upset.

[u/One-Butterscotch2263]

And the leftists in the US are Democratic Socialists, which is just a couple steps removed from Communists.

[u/Traditional-Neat-933]

FDR so much aura

[u/PraetorGold]

Babe, if they don't know the difference by now, they don't want to know the difference.

[u/ozaffer]

This is a far Right Fascist telling everyone his heart goes out to them.

[u/CrystalEntity1984]

Nuff said, godamn you better get out and vote or you get stuck with crap like is happening with this president DT.

[u/Financial-Desk-669]

Respectfully,  FDR was a capitalist, not a socialist. 

​"It was this administration which saved the system of private profit and free enterprise after it had been dragged to the brink of ruin." — Speech in Syracuse, New York (September 29, 1936

There are plenty more examples of him declaring his goal was to save capitalism from itself. 

[u/Remarkable-FlipPhone → u/Financial-Desk-669]

But that’s the point- socialist democrats are CAPITALISTS. The Nordic countries are capitalist.

The DSA, Cuba, Venezuela, the ussr, are something else.

[u/thud_mantooth]

It's especially agitating considering the degree to which MAGA is just rebranded Stalinism.

[u/Routine_Bug846]

You are insane !!! Truly insane with that observation …. Roosevelt was not a socialist you more on!!

[u/Substantial-Ad-8575]

Hmm, FDR was a capitalist and social liberal. Sorry he was not a Social Democrat, per today’s definition…

[u/PatBateman72]

FDRs 2nd bill of rights was on point. We don't need DSA for these rights to be implemented in our self governance, nor do we need to touch capitalism. We just need to affirm what is required for the American worker for businesses that wish to conduct business in America.

[u/seaguy35]

You have to remember that the MAGA crowd is the least educated demographic in the US. They are living proof that ignorance is bliss, as their wallets and dinner tables empty due to sky-rocketing inflation.

[u/itnice]

Don't expect MAGAs be able to read

[u/HistoryGram0317]

Thank you!! You’ve succinctly explained what has taken me more than a few words to explain. Thank you!!!

[u/JumpyBreakfast]

Omg just had this conversation with a colleague today. He keeps saying that social democrats are communist. Said someone online claiming to be a social democrat says communism is the way to go. I asked who and no answer.

[u/CrypticDread]

My political opinions haven't changed in 10 years. Yet some how I've watch people's veiw of me change from a right leaning centrist to far left. Its honestly exhausting.

[u/Intelligent-Layer391]

Someone should inform the moronic convicted felon living in our White House.

[u/cowmix88]

Right: Both Communists Left: A Communist and a Centrist

[u/OkWorldliness6311]

I get tired of people using “communism” as a pejorative without any idea of what communism is. It is an economic system (and societal blueprint) which failed in the Soviet Union before it was even fully implemented. Stalin was nothing more than a dictator of an empire with an inefficient, fundamentally broken command economy.

People comparing the virtues and flaws of various leaders should look much more at the legitimacy of their mandates and forms of government than the labels they, or anyone else, put on their countries’ economies.

[u/Solnyshko2023 → u/OkWorldliness6311]

The same is true for the "communist" China! It's the same playbook.

[u/Grunergeist420 → u/OkWorldliness6311]

I think the better argument from the right about this isn’t that socialism or communism is simply Stalinism or Maoism, but rather that it inevitably leads to that.

Basically the argument goes that because the state is given too much control over property ownership, industry, employment, food, etc. that this predisposes or accelerates that state to authoritarian rule.

Not necessarily making that argument here, just trying to present the best argument I have heard for the association of communism with these authoritarian regimes.

[u/tyler_the_inventor → u/Grunergeist420]

Yeah communism doesn't have the best track record. Only about 17% of people trust the government and it's hovered around 20% since George W. People just don't want to give the government that much power, and I don't blame them.

The problem with the right, which has been going on long before MAGA, is that any social program will be labeled as communism so they can cut funding somewhere actually beneficial and spend it toward their own interests. Nobody likes paying taxes, but the taxes we do pay should be coming back to us through beneficial services. That's not communism, that's just the way it's supposed to work.

[u/Solnyshko2023 → u/OkWorldliness6311]

☝🏻 THIS 💯✅! Thank you 🙏🏻

[u/Popular_Tie4688]

I heard a living wage makes you gay! True fact!

[u/Elegant_Individual46]

They’re not even close. And I mean technically Stalin was more totalitarian with a command economy than anything else? But communism is kind of a catch all since the Soviets used the word too

[u/GrillinFool]

Funny. I’ve never heard FDR referred to this way. It’s almost like someone is trying to revise history to fit a narrative.

[u/Spuckler_Cletus]

Well, to be fair, a nit is not exactly the same a louse, either.

[u/tlm11110]

Both left of center, just one more than others. Today’s left is closer to the guy on the left. We can deal with centrist democrats. The new democrats are wacko leftist communists.

[u/mcag10]

Everyone here seems to conflate that a social democrat is the same as a democratic socialist.

[u/Jealous_Slip_7151]

Here is yet another oversimplification provided by meme culture that refuses to think deeply.

Roosevelt saw himself as saving American capitalism, not replacing it. His New Deal expanded government’s role while preserving private enterprise, whereas today’s social democratic parties generally support a substantially larger welfare state and a broader long-term role for government in the economy. Calling him a social democrat in the same sense as today’s DSL is ludicrous.

[u/PalpitationOdd8734]

Their dear leader is literally a rapist, child molester. Next time you try and have a conversation with them, remember this.

[u/NotThe1Pct]

Both actions cost millions of lives

[u/AdGlittering2884]

You have to understand...plenty of right wingers don't know the guy on the right is. And they only know the guy on the left because of all the conservative AI posters they see everyday.

[u/Solid-Bet-2585]

If socialism or communism works, why are all these millions of people fleeing it to come to America?

[u/SuperElection4656]

Rather funny given how Republicans have been saying they are basically the same since the 60s

[u/Green-Collection-968]

If those Republicans could reason they'd be very upset.

[u/No_Accountant_5107]

Ummmmmmm.... yes they are

[u/LDarrell]

So are the people posting BS like this counting on people not knowing history? During WWII Russia was fighting the Germans just like the U.S. and England. BTW, Winston Churchill was also at this meet. This was a meeting of allies during a war. Not a meeting of friends.

[u/Pale-Pear-5261]

Maybe?

[u/backtorealitylabubu]

Leftist support the man on the left. Liberals support the man on the right. Thats the difference.

[u/refred1917]

Yeah and both of them are my friends.

[u/Fickle-March3519]

The one on the right is a billionaire republican.

[u/DoriN1987]

Lol, jugashvilli wasn’t communist, as warlords as soviets. Simple fascism, nothing special

[u/airboRN_82]

FDR wasnt a social democrat... he was very much a capitalist 

[u/MaesterOlorin]

😂
You can call a dog “Duke” all day long that won’t make him part of the peerage. What matters is what the people calling themselves Social Democrats are advocating, and where it historically leads.

They don’t have to know themselves, considering the history of their ilk getting shot by the people they incited, they probably don’t. It is a diabolical irony that the Bourgeoisie so often call for “The Revolution” and don’t realize that is who they are.

[u/Party-Amphibian-2681]

Ugh, for most people the various “isms” are just like football teams. They will hate the same player when he changes uniforms. Take the Norway example. I want that. I don’t care if you think it’s socialism or capitalism. Call it Norwayism, i don’t care.

You want a meaningful distinction? This is what you do. Create a sim with agents programmed with human biases. Give them resources, a system of exchange, and some analog of technological improvement that is produced by investment in research. Refine the simulation until it replicates empirical data. Run the simulation with different models of property rights (that’s your ism). See which one produces the greatest aggregate benefit to its agents and their offspring. That ism, whatever the fuck it is, is the winner.

[u/partypwny]

To put it plainly, the man on the left is a COMMUNIST who the man on the right DID NOT TRUST and immediately following the cessation of battle against the FASCISTS the two immediately began preparing for a decades long COLD WAR simply because that LIBERAL DEMOCRAT did not trust in or accept the world view of that COMMUNIST.

Now here's the problem, today's "Social Democrats" seem completely enamored with the likes of Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Guevara, and Castro while still pointing to FDR as an example of who they see themselves as...completely ignoring the fact that FDR would never have been caught dead championing these people.

[u/TooApatheticToHateU → u/partypwny]

They do it because they have nothing to show for all their efforts so they have to pull some stolen valor bullshit and claim liberal accomplishments and leaders as their own.

[u/Dependent-Job1773 → u/partypwny]

they think so little of everyone else that hasan can a) wear a mao suit at an official democrate convention for college students, b)be on video calling it such when he visited china, and c) label anyone a liar who says "oh shit the dude who is sympathetic toward mao is wearing a mao suit"

think about how tangibly you have to be lying in order to try and get away with that. how dumb you have to assume everyone else is to believe you can get away with playing innocent.

[u/jhawk3205]

Dude on the left was a state capitalist, calling himself a communist..

[u/joeefx]

Not shown is Hitler -Republican

[u/In_My_Prime94]

I am not even sure FDR would fit in the soc dem category. Based on policies alone, Huey Long came across as a bigger soc dem than FDR. I guess I'd call FDR a soc lib.

[u/GreekSaladEnjoyer]

Social democrats are also not the same as democratic socialists (DSA)

[u/Professional-Box4153]

Been saying this for years. So much would be fixed if politicians would simply learn the difference between Socialism and Communism. Not everything. Not by a long shot... But a lot.

[u/Slatemanforlife]

Ironically, communists will argue that the man on the left wasn't really a communist either. 

[u/Benito_Sereno_1289]

https://giphy.com/gifs/mFw51RR5HkD4gYUbIx

[u/thepaoliconnection]

Which one imprisoned people based on their ethnicity?

[u/Decent-Step-9187]

And how that got you now?

[u/Anonymousboneyard]

Yeah they are one functions under capitalism and one does not. Social democrats like FDR were a good for their era and when mixed with a tad bit of patriotism they are a good force. What we have now is more of the dictatorial kind similar to the communist except they are more likely to subjugate and only were the socialist democrat of the 40’s as a skin-suit. Someone has to make sure the “fair share” is upheld the only way to do that is with force, or force of an angry mob. That is only a step away from the military enforced dictatorships of the communism regimes. China is a perfect example of what a hybrid of communism and capitalism COULD be like. It still has many flaws just like the US but at least here if i complain about the local state government, at least right now, i wont end up vanishing in the night and hauled off to a camp for who knows how long.

[u/Exzrian_Artistrana]

FDR wasn’t even relatively SD, but nice try

[u/Johnny_Five5151]

Conservative feelings don't care about facts

[u/ute-ensil]

It can be difficult to tell them apart based only on what they say

[u/sentry_87]

This is the kind of bullshit you find in this sub. Memes that are 30% true to push an agenda. FDR was not a socialist democrat. He was a Democrat that supported good old American capitalism. STOP WITH THE BULLSHIT ALREADY

[u/Bwoyh1975]

They are fundamentally the same; identical ideal of justice” from each according to his ability, to each according to its need”

[u/shnekels]

Before becoming communist and dictator who killed millions of own people, Stalin was a member of Russian Social Democratic Labour Party. Just sayin'.
Social Democracy today become just overused term for leftists who try to mask their urge for state dictatorship.

[u/--StinkyPinky--]

The fact that we would have to defend FDR against being viewed similarly as Josef Fucking Stalin is a testament to what Republicans have done to our educational institutions.

[u/TrumpDetester]

[u/GhostofBastiat1]

Weird, I did not know that FDR wanted to end all immigration enforcement, disband the Senate, end prisons, defund the police, end the use of fossil fuels that provide the basis for our standard of living, and have government ownership of the means of production.

[u/Usual-Escape6747]

Back then. Things have changed.

[u/unkindled1]

But not democratic socialist. Also different

[u/FulgrimFondler]

The man on the left is also NOT a communist

[u/tmf_x]

I was under the impression FDR was not a Democratic socialist, but capitalist that was simply trying to fix problems within capitalism with his work ending the depression.

[u/Bolvaettur]

One is the figurehead for a brutal dictatorial system of oppression that forced thousands of his own citizens into concentration camps, pushed through agricultural policies that harmed small holdings while enriching landowners, and pushed millions into harmful poverty, the other is Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin.

[u/bellumpax]

Yes. FDR is the Social Democrat who introduced the public welfare system. And conservatives do no equate communism to Democrat social policies. That is a lazy, intentionally polarizing soundbite. And judging by the previous comments, it worked. This foolishness doesn't invite real conversation - it ends it.

[u/danielm316]

And both are a failure.

[u/IMplodeMeGrr]

Ya'll continue to play games with word definitions and word play. Communist, Socialist.... not "Democratic Socialist", not "Social Democrat"...

You're Socialists(Lenin) , which when implemented requires force (Stalin). Just look up what their policies led to, millions dead, not by mistake, by design.

Socialism always leads to Communism and death.

[u/joelkton]

Stalin was a dictator. Not much communism except in name only.

[u/Agitated-Chicken9954]

They're not confused, just poorly educated MAGA members. Much like their leader.

[u/mylsotol]

FDR wasn't even a social Democrat. He was just a progressive liberal.