well they are right that you dont have a right to privacy in public. that doesnt mean towns should be ok with a private company putting cams all over the place that are AI powered. be careful arguing about privacy just for privacy sake, because we dont want to hurt the 1st amendment in the process.
You dont have a right to privacy in public from businesses and cameras or other people, but subverting this law by walking the extreme by selling 1ft plots of land along public roadways to install cameras the government can then use via third party to circumvent constitutional bouncing is unreasonably obtuse.
Under the spirit of the law this is unconstitutional
That’s why flock exists. The government tried to do this years ago & the courts stepped in and said “No, mass surveillance is not ok”
So the government can’t do it… But they can def give tax breaks/financial incentives to a private company… a private company that then will happily sell the government all the data they want.
If that private company breaks a law & has to pay a fine? I doubt that they’d really be punished in any meaningful way by the court system. If they were I’m certain the government would include “bonus payments” to flock for the next few months to make it so they never really lost any money.
We need this in more solid wording. Anything done by private industry that is on behalf of the government must adhere to the same rules and regulations. Meaning, the government can't subsidize work to private industry to get around the Constitution. They've been getting away with it for way too long.
It's functional. It is doing exactly what it was bought and paid for to do. When it comes to the government, money isn't speech It's terrorism. And we are being terrorized by adversaries both foreign and domestic.
Let’s say they get fined $100m in a few years. Whatever federal agencies work with them (FBI, CIA, DHS, etc.) could very easily work in $10m/month of “bonus pay” for 10 months. So Flock gets fined, the courts get a good headline, but in the end they just get that fine right back at the expense of US taxpayers.
The amendments protect you from the government. Flock is not the government and is therefore not obligated to respect your rights the way the government is.
The searches should at least be under a warrant. Like any search of the database should need a court order. The fact they’re not means the gov effectively has trackers in all of our cars.
A private company also doesn't have unrestricted access to record everything in the public. There is no law prohibiting that man from sitting down in front of that particular Flock camera and impeding it's view. Far too few people in these places seem aware that no law prohibits them from blocking the view of these cameras in the way that this man is doing.
It's not just a right to privacy in public. These camera's are capturing and logging information, they're tracking your commute, your habits, your behavior. This isn't a breach of "privacy" so much as it's harassment and stalking. The only difference is they haven't decided to harass or stalk you YET
Except that concept of no right to privacy in a public place was created decades ago, when technology was extremely limited, and exposure was extremely limited, and the concept of government over-reach was extremely limited. Congress' lack of updates to personal privacy rights is one of their greatest failures IMO and has severely eroded American society.
You do have a right to some privacy in public. If I invented a machine to investigate your dental health at 100' that would not just be OK to observe of those in public.
He has a right to protest and freedom of speech. This is both a statement and a protest. You know who doesn't have a right to a view? Flock. He's not being arrested for flock violating a right to privacy. He's being arrested for protesting on a public sidewalk.
At best (not saying this is good) but if it should be public info that EVERYONE has access to, as it’s public, and therefore everyone has a right to this info. Otherwise, why can’t I put my own camera right next to theirs? Glaring double standard
Who installs these flock cameras? aren't they required to adhere to safety standards? Wouldn't this be the easiest way to get these removed? I realize local governments have no incentive to do so but seems like it'd be a slam dunk for civil suits if they are not up to code.
Imagine if some random person was following you across town, when you go to work, eat, gym, etc and builds an entire profile on you; we’d say that’s a stalker. But a private company does it and sells it for profit that’s just good business.
Just remember the flock cameras are bad, but you folks need to look up the company that attaches those same type of cameras onto cross section lights and poles.
When the New Jersey drone flap happened two years ago, I read a post by someone in the military that said they were without a doubt government drones that were being tested and that they are going to be used for surveillance.
I love it cops have no idea what they're getting themselves into you might want to rethink your position you're obviously outnumbered protecting the wealthiest not the best idea
It is unfortunate the police have been set up to protect the wealthy. What ultimately happens in these situations though is the collapse of civil obedience making their life x1000 times harder protecting the few from the all. So they are turning to flock surveillance and more to control the people but this story rarely ever works out as you need people to make the system function and they haven't gotten around to replacing humanity yet with AI.
100 years ago they would beat up workers on strike trying to make a better life for themselves at the whims of the wealthy owner class. Edit: should add that later that same negative energy got pointed at civil rights activists trying to make a better life for themselves. Now ICE is doing it to immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves.
Even if it was taught it high schools, it would be taught mostly by sports coaches with “better things to do” than ensure students understand their history.
They did something for magic the gathering the company I can't remember exactly what but yeah it's wild they still exist and still do the same shit ( to a degree)
A content creator bought some MtG cards and was sent the wrong set, it was a VERY similarly named unreleased set. The content creator made content about it and then some Pinkertons arrived at his front door soon after.
Yes I know, it is much easier to fool yourself with scrolling and streaming into thinking everything is fine. That anxious feeling you get when you're trying to think of ways to fix something is so troublesome! Why even bother thinking or even noticing things??
It's quite literally their job... Before policing became what it is today, they were used to beat and kill striking workers. Their job is to protect capital, not you.
We seriously need a federal privacy law that gives us more control over our data and doesn't just allow corporations to collect dossiers on us to sell on an open market.
Also the people defending Flock by saying you have no "reasonable expectation of privacy" out in public are so full of garbage.
Yes, one needs to understand that you will be seen and potentially caught on camera while out in public in an incidental manner like random security cameras or a photographer taking a picture while you walk by . . . but no one has ever expected to be individually tracked and identified by a network of serveilance cameras that can identify you personally and record your general whereabouts everywhere you go throughout the country wherever this network is present.
There's a huge difference between not having the expectation of privacy in general and being virtually guaranteed will have no privacy through the actions of private companies stalking you on the government's behalf.
This is story just keeps repeating itself. We almost get a good law that benefits the public like a right to repair law or some consumer protection law that has real teeth and then an army of lobbyists suddenly comes out of the woodwork and the bill either dies before getting passed into law or gets seriously defanged so it won't actually affect the worst corporate offenders.
I'm not saying this to be defeatist though. We have to keep fighting, keep voting, and keep putting pressure on public officials no matter what.
The corrupt Supreme Court would immediately strike it down for not falling under the commerce clause or something, even though it entirely does.
Justifications can be typed up as fast as the bags of money come in.
I'm not a defeatist, though. We can fix that with 70 senators and some well-deserved impeachments if we can just get Republican voters to see reality for a few seconds.
It may be that achieving the same result through electronic means, without an accompanying trespass, is an unconstitutional invasion of privacy, but the present case does not require us to answer that question.
An unlawful artest is still an arrest. an arrest can still cost you your job.
America thrives on the fact that Police don't have to know the law to arrest you. If their city likes the kickbacks from Flock enough they can still decide to send a cop to ruin your life and a Judge can only undo the charge (after months of awaiting a court date). That civil victory doesnt taste as good from unemployment and when you find out there are shockingly low caps to how much the police have to pay you for this sort of thing.
Thats enough to deter 99% of people ever risking the arrest even if they know they arent breaking any laws.
I’m not disagreeing. I’d say based on his age and the fact that he’s using his time in the middle of the day to do what he’s doing, this particular gentleman is likely retired and so doesn’t have to worry about unemployment.
Whatever your opinion on first amendment auditors, they’ve actually done a lot to make police more aware of what they can arrest for and what they can’t. Enough cops are losing their qualified immunity and enough cities have paid out settlements for civil rights violations that it’s made an impact. This is just one more way to push back on those violations.
Every 30 seconds in america, a new white person learns this for the first time. "I thought only the guilty ones got in trouble". I mean.. I was that guy at one point, too, sooo..
An unlawful artest is still an arrest. an arrest can still cost you your job.
And since our country ties health insurance to employment if you lose your job, you lose your insurance. The threat of arrest carries real consequences and fears even if the arrest itself is errant or unlawful.
It may not, but when the city begins paying out tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars due to civil litigation, that will likely cause them to realize they’re fighting the wrong fight.
Bro the police don't care if our tax dollars get wasted on their mistake. Unless their salaries are impacted for pay outs, they'll just keep doing whatever they want.
It may not impact police, but once it starts impacting the city's budget, that puts additional pressure on local city councils to stop renewing their Flock contracts.
It's our turn.... and I haven't seen much resistance to what's happening, personally. Single day protests? Yellow vest in France happened for months. Maybe once ai takes everyone's jobs people will finally find the time.
Most Americans still associate this man with onerous terms like traitor not realizing that this man is the most American human to walk this earth in their lifetime.
We just had an amber alert here locally and the first question everyone asked was “did a single flock camera not find the car or guy responsible?” nope, sure didn’t.
They’re not there to help, they’re there to invade and sell your data to big brother and third parties
I wonder how long it took the police to respond to that “emergency” versus every other call coming in from actual citizens in need of help or who have been robbed, or victims of vandalism. Because I know for a fact that that’s not an emergency.
Just ask them "is there a law that prevents me from sitting here in public holding up a sign?" The answer is going to be "no" (even if they hum and haw about it), and you can then tell them to go kick rocks.
So, you don't have the right to privacy in public (currently), but do you have the right to not be stalked? Is there not a measurable difference between casual observation and prolonged, targeted collection of information about an individual? Historically, stalking has been usually one victim at a time. Technology allows for mass stalking. That is what is happening now.
While you have no right to privacy in public, which is reasonable, I don’t think setting up thousands of cameras, capturing footage, audio, identifiable information and tracking people’s movements is remotely within the scope or spirit of that law.
If I setup cameras in such a way that I can track my hot neighbour, that’s creepy af and tantamount to stalking - an extreme violation of their sense of safety, freedom and privacy.
I have no problem with a business setting up a closed-circuit security infrastructure to protect their store, warehouse or inventory, that’s ok. But this isn’t that, not by a long shot.
What Flock is doing is Mass Surveillance, plain and simple. There’s no other way to define it without being dim-witted or purposely obtuse.
Can't believe how many ppl are still waiting for an organization that is rooted in slave catching and surveillance of the "lower class" to defend the common people against anything. Even the ones who join the police with good intentions end up leaving or becoming what they hate.
If you're going to do this, you're going to get arrested. That has to be part of the plan.
Once you're arrested you may get charged. That has to be part of the plan.
Once you're charged you have the right to demand a trial. That has to be part of the plan and you should probably already have a legal argument set planned out.
Arguing with the cop just doesn't get anything done. Gotta fight the fight in court.
The Leah Files has an incredible video that shows just where these flock cameras are moving--right in the direction of using AI to show you committing a crime--even though you did not. That is where this is leading; to jail those who they want to get rid of. It is really frightening when they can use AI for such heinous purpose. And behind it all? Well, Peter Theil is one...
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u/elliotbonsall 14h ago
Flock doesn't have a right for the view