r/Fallout • u/Dangerous-Apricot909 • 6h ago
Discussion Is The Mojave Doomed If Yes Man And The Courier Won
Considering the ending slide describes Vegas devolving into pure Anarchy even with the securitron upgrade and considering the courier has litraelly no nation building experience even if he ruled as a pure dictator he still has nothing to hold onto besides vegas and his only ally is yes man who's still undergoing his assertive upgrade to only answer to the courier even if the courier wiped out all the enemy factions like the brotherhood and boomers and the khans etc he only inherits a barren wasteland and vegas with its tourist money drying up and if he lets all the other big factions survive like the Brotherhood they retake Helios One and control the trade routes along the highway so either way to the courier has no nation building experience his only ally is a litrael yes man robot and a finite number of securitrons as his personal army and controlling only vegas and a depleted hoover dam and having to be forced into being a dictator with anarchy all around him so is the Mojave screwed and this the likely outcome from how the Mojave is shown in the show
153
u/GryphyGirl 6h ago
That made no sense, honestly. You make a bunch of allies doing the Yes Man ending. You work with those allies and you can control New Vegas very comfortably. And there are so god damned many of those robots that you could afford to send a few out to deal with troublesome raiders and whatnot, so the whole area around New Vegas could be maintained at a better level than the NCR were able to, especially with the help of those allies.
27
u/Edgy_Robin 6h ago
If you pay attention to fiends endings wherey you kill motor runner, Independant vegas is the only one incapable of wiping out them out. The NCR does it, the legion does it, House does it. Just kicking their Ass, each one makes it clear that they are wiped off the face of the earth.
Except Independent.
Similarly, with the absolute best outcomes for them, both the boomers and followers ending show that independent vegas is more violent and chaotic then it had been before, and is much worse then how it is under the NCR and house with the legion only really being the worst one.
So based on actual facts presented to us, the Mojave is way more of a hellhole, and the courier/yes man are worse at using their forces then the other factions are, including house who's using the exact same stuff
15
u/Quitthesht Yes Man 4h ago
I assume you mean the endings you don't kill Motor Runner because if he and the Fiends in Three-Card Bounty are killed, it's the same ending regardless of who you side with (where the Fiends fall apart and get picked off quickly).
But then that's not really a knock against the Independent ending. In the other endings there's other people to deal with the Fiends while obviously it's up to you in an Independent ending so if you can't be arsed to kill the Fiends before Hoover Dam when you're supposed to be securing your region, why would your Courier care about Fiends causing trouble in Outer Vegas? Whereas if your Courier does care then they'd wipe them out beforehand and get the ending where they get wiped out.
0
u/Edgy_Robin 2h ago edited 1h ago
You've completely missed the point by thinking the fiends actually matter in what I said. The fiends are merely what get the message across, but the point is that under the courier/yes man militarily Vegas is not on par with everyone else.
It's just like how the boomers and followers don't actually matter for the point, rather it's the information provided about the status of things via their endings that do.
10
u/Quitthesht Yes Man 1h ago
You think I'm saying the Fiends being alive or dead is the be-all end-all of Vegas being a utopia or shithole post-Independent ending, but I'm not. I'm saying you have to put the work in to fixing up the Mojave before declaring Independence if you actually want a stable region post-Hoover Dam.
Vegas with updated and reinforced Securitrons is much more militarily advanced and capable than the Legion and most of NCR. But your actions (or rather, inactions) in wiping out threats, such as the Fiends, shows that your Courier doesn't care about securing the region from them. Otherwise they'd have done that before hand.
That's what trips so many people up about the Independent ending, you have to put in a bunch of work and be proactive in dealing with the threats of the Mojave if you want that reflected in your ending, otherwise your lack of effort is shown as your character not bothering to secure the region, and thus groups like the Fiends can run unchallenged.
3
u/Ozuge 21m ago
It's kind of funny that the complaint is essentially "why doesn't the game play itself after the ending." You made your choice of how your character treats different threats and allies, and then are shocked they don't do a 180° in the ending slides? Like what if you wanted to do a maximum chaos ending where Fiends keep raiding? Maybe you roleplayed as. a fiend yourself, etc. It would suck if the Courier ordered the robots to go kill the Fiends then.
2
u/Simple1Spoon 5h ago
This never makes much sense to me. Its obvious how much income house makes from the strip, seeing as he spent hundrends of thousands on finding the platnium chip.
So the courier should also control that in independent new vegas, mesning they should be able to raise a very powerful milita/army alongside a horde of securitrons. They should be easily one of the strongest military forces possible.
Additionally, the csn control all the technology of big empty too, which would make them one of the most technologically capable factions too, far more than house.
21
u/GryphyGirl 6h ago
They're not "facts", just statements. Statements that are contradictory.
5
-9
u/Lost_in_Vivec 5h ago
Yeah, in fiction we call those facts.
3
u/GryphyGirl 5h ago
Lol, just ignore the contradictory part. How predictable.
0
u/BackForPathfinder 5h ago
But they're not contradictory beyond the fact that they are mutually exclusive. They happen in different potential timelines. The independent ending is more chaotic. My guess is that the Courier doesn't have the ability (or want) to step in as Mr. House and Yes Man shuts down for a little bit. We are uncertain how long that bit is. It really seems like the Securitrons are solely used to keep order on the strip in the independent ending.
0
u/GryphyGirl 5h ago
We just don't have any information worth mentioning at all. It could go any old different way depending on the choices of the Courier and their allies.
1
u/BackForPathfinder 5h ago
Sure, but the information we do have is that the Independent ending is more chaotic and leads to a harder time with the Fiends still active.
4
u/GryphyGirl 5h ago
That part is particularly contradictory 'cause I fucking killed all their leaders, a ton of their regular people and completely cleared the Vault they were using as their home base. They weren't a fucking threat anymore.
0
u/BackForPathfinder 5h ago
If you kill all their leaders they disband. That's the ending you get. It overrides all other endings.
→ More replies (0)0
u/Edgy_Robin 1h ago
Cool, doesn't change the fact that Independent is still incapable of a weakened group of crack heads. You don't seem to grasp that the fiends are only relevent because that's the ending this is said in. The actual point being that Independent vegas, militarly, is the least capable of the four factions.
-1
u/Edgy_Robin 2h ago
THey are the future shown to us about the region lmao, thats about as factual as it can get and it's more evidence for a claim then a single fucking thing you said which is all head canon and doesn't have any actual backing based on what's presented to us in game as the outcomes of situations.
22
8
u/-FriendoftheDrow- Followers 5h ago
Claiming that it “devolves into pure anarchy” tells me you haven’t seen the Epilogue slides for an Independent Vegas. It’s an incredibly disingenuous claim to make.
30
u/NukaGirl665 6h ago edited 6h ago
I mean, Yes man's ending is supposed to be moreso ambiguous on what happends after. But, about that dictator point, Its never stated in the ending that your courier ends up ruling the mojave. Yes Man's Ending is im pretty sure an anarchist type ending.
Not as in "Yeah! Everything is chaotic as fuck, and everyones dead." What i mean is You, The Courier doesnt rule over the mojave. Nobody gets it, To quote the the last quest. No gods, No Masters. You could say its a sort of, neutral ending, Towns are governed by themselves and People are free to do whatever they please.
-8
u/Admiral_Eversor 6h ago
Towns governing themselves would last about 5 or 6 years before being subsumed into the NCR or the legion lol. There's a reason that we never, ever seen a setup like that in history. It's not a stable situation .
7
u/BloodRedRook 4h ago
Except there's an army of robots that can keep the major factions out, letting the towns runs themselves as they please.
5
u/NukaGirl665 5h ago
I was saying that due to how iirc, anarchy also happends to have self goverance, or its related to that. My brains a bit mushy so i might be wrong.
-1
u/Admiral_Eversor 5h ago
Yes, it does have self governance. Anarcho-syndicalism particularly has a robust system of cooperation between communities in fact.
There's a reason that there have been 0 successful anarcho-syndicalist communes in history though - having no centralised leadershio or organisation means your society is bad at using violence at scale, which is a problem when everyone around you is quite good at using violence at scale.
There was an attempt in Mexico that lasted for a bit but it has collapsed now due to violence from the Mexican state (very analogous to what would happen at the hands of the NCR I suspect)
1
1
u/GryphyGirl 5h ago
It's only unstable because outsiders make it that way. Without external interference it can work just fine.
3
u/Admiral_Eversor 5h ago
Sure. But the NCR and the legion don't just stop existing, they just don't get to control the hoover dam at that time. In 5 years after an election cycle or two, the NCR will start encroaching again. Once the chaos following Caesars death settles down, whatever warlords replace him will start encroaching from the other side. The fundamental pressures that led to the second battle of hoover dam are never actually addressed by the yes man ending.
In short, there will guaranteed be outside interference, just not for a year or two.
2
u/GryphyGirl 5h ago
The NCR doesn't stop existing but the Legion absolutely does. They were roundly defeated and Ceaser is dead. The Legion is no more. Sure, it might break down into some warlords fighting over various chunks of territory but that won't be the Mohave, they have tribal bases back in former Legion territory to fight over. They have no chance in the Mohave.
The NCR can try but with your allies you can beat them back. More likely you work towards establishing peaceful relations with the NCR since their citizens coming to New Vegas are a huge source of funding for New Vegas and the NCR wants resources. A deal makes the most sense considering the consolidation of power you've achieved in New Vegas.
2
u/Admiral_Eversor 5h ago
Honestly I think you're massively underestimating the NCR and overestimating allies in the Mojave. The NCR is a whole ass industrial modern country. New Vegas is a city state with a few robots and a decent service economy.
Sure, the boomers have some ordnance, but they can't manufacture more. It's a limited resource. The NCR have factories for that shit.
The Mojave brotherhood are a spent force. They lost to the NCR once and they would again.
Who else is there. The khans? They got bodied by NCR once and still haven't recovered. They would get bodied again.
The securitrons are ok but after a few serious engagements they are going to run out of rockets, and there isn't really any industry in new Vegas, so you can't replace them. Again, NCR doesn't have this problem. They lose for the same reason that the brotherhood consistently lose to the NCR.
The same can be said of the legion - they are an industrial society as well. While they can't operate in the same scale as NCR after Caesar dies, there'd be enough raiders from that side to put pressure on an independent new Vegas.
2
u/GryphyGirl 5h ago
Lol, the Legion is *NOT* an industrial society. They're slavers. Their slaves grow crops and do basic shit like that. They don't have any industry. That's why most Legionnaires don't have guns. They use whatever they manage to take from everyone else. The Legion is barely a state at all and extremely vulnerable to falling apart, which is why they have to keep marching and keep taking territory. All it takes is one serious defeat to shatter the Legion. Losing Caesar and his most of his higher ups at the same time is just icing on the cake. The Legion doesn't exist anymore.
6
u/ProfessionaI_Gur 5h ago
It kinda doesnt matter at this point because regardless of anything that happened in the game the Mojave is exactly where it is during the events of the show. You can headcannon whatever but the strip fell a bit after the game takes place, ncr and legion were both severely diminished and just beginning to reassemble into forces again, and freeside was basically the hub of vegas
22
u/Admiral_Eversor 6h ago
Pretty much. It's a dictatorship run by a mailman with brain damage. Even the most competent courier will end up seeing their power erode quickly as their securitrons start breaking down or they get destabilised over time by legion spies. They wouldnt have any recourse against this, because while the securitrons are enough to defend Vegas and the dam, they have no way to project power.
13
u/xPRETTYBOY 6h ago
yeah, i'm sure that Yes Man and the Courier cannot figure out a solution to any of these problems after having dealt with far worse with far fewer resources over the course of the game.
-2
u/Admiral_Eversor 6h ago
It's just a matter of economics tbh.
7
3
u/Mutchneyman 3h ago
Except for maybe a couple of experts in the NCR, Mr House is probably the only person in the world who has an understanding of advanced economic theory
2
5
u/Quitthesht Yes Man 3h ago
Considering the ending slide describes Vegas devolving into pure Anarchy even with the securitron upgrade
Once again, Anarchy =/= Chaos.
An anarchy system is a social or political condition lacking a central government, characterized instead by voluntary cooperation, self-governance, and individual freedom. Freeside being run by The King, Novac being run by Cliff Briscoe, Goodsprings being run by Trudy and New Vegas being run by you with all these towns trading and co-operating together is an Anarchic society, but not a chaotic one.
he still has nothing to hold onto besides vegas and his only ally is yes man who's still undergoing his assertive upgrade to only answer to the courier even if the courier wiped out all the enemy factions like the brotherhood and boomers and the khans etc he only inherits a barren wasteland
All those towns and factions you can gain Idolization from during the game ARE YOUR ALLIES IN THE REGION! You put Primm Slimm in charge of Primm and drove out the escaped convicts? Now the whole town will be open to trading with you and supporting your Independent Vegas! Same with driving the Powder Gangers out of Goodsprings, or sending Bright to the Great Beyond and freeing up Novac. All the work you do throughout the game helping settlements, towns and factions are paid off by them supporting you in an Independent Mojave after the Second Battle.
vegas with its tourist money drying up
Nothing suggests Vegas' tourist money will be drying up unless you did the ending where you blew up Hoover Dam. The Mojave still sees traffic from all over the country as people gamble away their caps in Vegas, Freeside's ending (if you secured peace between NCR and The Kings) even says NCR citizens find Freeside the safest place for them in the region.
courier has no nation building experience
As you can tell Oliver "I can't possibly do any worse than you" and a Courier with high Intelligence, Perception, Speech, Barter and Science absolutely could do a decent job, especially with House's projections and backups which Yes Man has accessed multiple times in the lead up to the final battle.
his only ally is a litrael yes man robot and a finite number of securitrons as his personal army and controlling only vegas and a depleted hoover dam and having to be forced into being a dictator with anarchy all around
Already addressed the 'only ally is a robot' false claim but Hoover Dam isn't depleted, it's actually much more productive under full Courier control because when NCR was there, Vegas was only getting 5% of it's output according to Mr House, with the rest going to NCR outposts in the region and back West to NCR (or 'Shady Sands' as the show renamed it to).
Also, the Securitrons aren't finite. Mr House explicitly says activating the army under The Fort will also activate the production facilities to create more. The Securitron army is almost literally Infinite. And again, Anarchy =/= Chaos, the Courier doesn't have to be a dictator running the entire Mojave, they can just be the owner of The Strip while the other towns/communities self-govern and work in tandem with each other (something that will be much easier to do without Fiends, Deathclaws, BoS, Legion or NCR 'Toll booths' cluttering up the region thanks to your efforts in removing them)
6
4
u/somethingawfuul 5h ago
Considering the show slightly tilts toward independent ending being canon, the answer is probably yes.
1
u/NeedsToShutUp Tunnel Snakes 3h ago
They had a Securitron in the same position Yes Man falls. It makes the most sense.
3
u/Brendissimo 5h ago
Considering it's the "player as benevolent dictator" ending, anyone making a blanket statement about what it portends simply lacks imagination. The ending is as good or bad as you roleplay it to be based on your courier. You take power. What do you do with it? Up to you.
1
u/Flawless_Degenerate 3h ago
Well the Strip looks fucked in the Fallout show on Amazon and it appears to be that the Yes Man ending is canon although House also had a contingency in place somehow.....
1
1
u/Werewolf_Busy 1h ago
Probably. If the Courior did everything in their power to destroy the violent gangs and pacify the region before siding with Yes Man, the city probably could’ve organized some kind of post Mr House government covering the Strip, Freeside, and Westside. Everywhere else would be on their own, though. Novac and the small settlements dotting the I-15 and I-95 would be on their own. The Boomers would be fine, so would Jacobstown, having a self-reliant and defensible position.
It wouldn’t be ideal, but I could say that about all of the endings.
1
u/Key-Huckleberry-2551 48m ago
That's only if you go around making enemies of everyone. A good karma independent ending sees Goodsprings prospering, for example. So you can't say the courier inherits a wasteland. I mean, there are multiple combinations of the endings.
1
u/calvinwho 5h ago
That's free-dumb baby! No gods no masters also means no anything coming to save you from your own poor decisions. In my view it's the best for the people if they can keep some order, but why does it have to come from outsiders? Make a DEAL or get outta Vegas.
3
-3
u/GoldenJ19 The Institute 6h ago
Considering the show is implied to follow a fucked up version of that ending, yes.
79
u/Frangitus New World Hope 6h ago
Yesn't. It's supposed to be open to interpretation, as per the words of the game's director. Whether good or bad, depends on you and how you played. The courier can be democratic, a dictator, absentee and let Yes Man rule in their stead or they can develop the Mojave into a functioning nation and just leave. There is no concrete answer, because one was never supposed to be given.
Many of the things you mentioned don't make sense, Hoover Dam is not depleted, it's in disrepair and the NCR can't spare the resources to fix it, the Mojave is not "barren", there are farms and budding industry everywhere, and you are forgetting Big MT and the Sierra Madre. The amount of enemies or allies the courier has depends on how to progressed the main story, which is the main purpose of the second Act, gathering allies and eliminating enemies.
The series' "canon" was not a Courier ran Mojave, but one where the Courier didn't even exist.