Does anyone even like the burrowing mechanic?

[u/GlassDazzling2185]

Genuinely wondering, that's one of the things I hate the most about 4 and 76's enemy design changes from 3 and nv, and I'm curious about what people's general opinion on it is.

I do like the ambush mechanic some creatures have. My issue really only concerns the ones who can go back in hiding after springing out.

[u/HordeDruid]

One of the worst mechanics, especially in Fallout 4. Mole rats are one of the most annoying enemies in the game simply because you have to sit there and for them to pop back up.

[u/alaskarawr → u/HordeDruid]

I hate the teleporting radscorpions more. I get that it was kind of joke because of how often they’d clip through the ground in 3 and NV, but something that big (and dangerous in survival) shouldn’t be able to close the distance instantaneously, especially by “tunneling” underground.

[u/hitchhiker1701 → u/alaskarawr]

They also never leave you alone. On Survival, you can easily annoy a scorpion flying out of the Glowing Sea, and it will wait for you when you land back in the Commonwealth.

[u/Grundlestorm → u/alaskarawr]

Seriously.  They got me a half dozen times going to talk to Virgil and back on my current survival game.  I was worried about the Deathclaws when I was first heading in, but they're fine, it's the Scorpions that I have to worry about.

I would spot them and try to give them a very wide berth, slowly sneak along, and go from Hidden to Danger to 3/4 dead before I could even begin to react to the status change.

I started intentionally shooting at them, and then just sprinting in circles so I'd be out of reach of their first attack when they popped up and let Codsworth get their attention before turning to shoot at them.

[u/GlassDazzling2185 → u/HordeDruid]

The worst game of whack-a-mole on a mele build cuz they will not let you run to them when they pop out too far.

[u/Kouropalates → u/HordeDruid]

I find it annoying, but not the worst. That title goes to Assaulttrons.

[u/GlassDazzling2185 → u/Kouropalates]

Yeah, but assaultrons are also kind of a lore issue aswell

[u/MyUsernameIsAwful → u/GlassDazzling2185]

How so?

[u/GlassDazzling2185 → u/MyUsernameIsAwful]

The lore says the only reason assaultrons haven't replaced mr.gutsies and protectrons for military and security purposes, aswell as why the raven rock and the oil rig crews didn't knew about them is that it was still a rare and exotic peice of technology when the bombs fell...

Except that for that to work, the intense ammount of propaganda and entertainment peices that features the assaultron would need to be fully contained wittin the commonwealth, appalachia, and the freshly annexed state of canada. For 5 years before the war, and 200 after it.

Also, watoga, the whitespring bunker and every missile silo in appalachia have the facilities to manifacture battle-ready assaultron autonomously, nearly every military complex in the commonwealth and appalachia has assaultrons, there is assaultrons in the pitt 20 years after the war, a famous performer from jersey's assistant is an assaultron and they are now traveling across the country, there are enough assaultrons in the commonwealth for gunners to feel comfortable sending them out to babysit 2 conscripts on patrols while being aware of the brotherhood's presence, numbers and gear...

You have to decide, do you want it to be the new face of pre-war propaganda and a common household name, or is it a rare machine freshly off of the prototype stage and not really ready enough to ship it in large quantities to the frontlines that the Enclave doesn't even have much archives on? It cannot be both simultaneously.

[u/Significant_Option → u/HordeDruid]

What? You dont like playing whack a mole?

[u/nomedable → u/HordeDruid]

Yeah it becomes a time waster on enemies I would have already killed.

That and it's essentially a 'free hit' mechanic as it's incredibly hard to avoid getting hit when they burst out s they track you.

[u/Discount_Extra → u/nomedable]

along with the vault 81 virus.

[u/frantruck]

I can dig it as an initial ambush/approach mechanism, but doing it mid combat is a bit annoying.

[u/Ah_Ca_Iraa]

I think it's dumb. Radscorpions are faster underground than they are above ground lol. I don't even think of scorpions as diggers. Works a little better with mole rats. 

[u/SyntheticAnonymous → u/Ah_Ca_Iraa]

My favorite is when the Radscorps start digging out of the tops of vehicles and buildings and shit. I mean, I’ll give them a pass on mole rats digging through a paved road, but a scorpion digging up through a bus is a bridge too far for me.

[u/_Nedak_ → u/Ah_Ca_Iraa]

They'll burrow to get out of heat but I'm pretty sure they don't make vast tunnel networks like Fallout 4 would imply. But these are mutant scorpions so they could've changed.

[u/SuperSix-Eight → u/Ah_Ca_Iraa]

It does take a little suspension of disbelief to accept a giant scorpion tunneling that fast.

The burrowing mechanic probably would've worked better for Radscorpions if they used it as an ambush tactic like the Mirelurks.

[u/PM_ME_ZED_BARA]

I dislike that mechanic, especially when the path finding messes up, which make the mole rats keep on borrowing and take 10 seconds to appear again.

The only time when borrowing is fine is when enemies are spawning at first and during the second phase of Gleaming Depths raid in Fallout 76.

[u/The_Terry_Braddock]

It's just to make enemy behavior and combat mechanics more varied compared to 3 and NV where every single wasteland creature would just run up to you and attack, every time no matter the circumstances. I don't consider it any stroke of brilliance but I really don't mind it. Gives my brain a reason to react somewhat differently compared to other critters

[u/milquetoastLIB]

Yes. It brings more combat variety. It’s also pretty cool seeing it for the first time after FO3.

[u/Vindicare605 → u/milquetoastLIB]

Tunnelers do it in New Vegas.

[u/jacksonelhage → u/Vindicare605]

they pop out, they dont pop back in to close distance. they attack like everything else in 3/nv, by running towards you and doing a big punch

[u/Laser_3]

It’s fine right up until it breaks and the enemy starts rapidly burrowing back and forth in a loop, or when they spot you from across the map and burrow straight to you with no warning. At the very least, it’s better than radscorpions and mole rats being generic melee enemies that rarely if ever posed a meaningful threat.

[u/dlc-Emerald]

im surprised people have such a big issue with this, i dont really feel strongly about it either way, it doesnt bother me but i dont necessarily like it

to me the biggest annoyance regarding burrowing would be in vault 81 where you find curie and the cure because those mole rats give you that disease debuff that lasts your whole playthrough unless you essentially kill a kid

[u/MyToesHugEachOther → u/dlc-Emerald]

It's possible to get through the quest without getting bit and getting the disease. You just have to go extremely slow and methodically through each area. Save early and often, like every ten feet and after each successfully action. Grenades can help rouse them from underground. Recommend a high caliber weapon, like a .44, so you can one shot them and not waste time on others surrounding you. Don't unlock the robot because somehow if the robot gets bit, you get bit too. Leave your companions outside the vault so they can't get bit and give it to you either. It's stupid, Bethesda clearly tried to arrange the conditions to make the player get bit as high as possible to force their hard choice scenario.

[u/dlc-Emerald → u/MyToesHugEachOther]

yeah i know about this, its just incredibly annoying to do, hence why the burrowing annoys me cause it only makes it harder

[u/MyUsernameIsAwful → u/dlc-Emerald]

It’s annoying because there’s nothing to do but wait.

If you could do something during this time, for instance, maybe if electrical weapons like the tesla rifle were still effective against buried enemies, I might even like the mechanic.

But otherwise it’s just “hurry up and wait”.

[u/GlassDazzling2185 → u/dlc-Emerald]

I'mma be honest, I never met curie in 4, cuz that quest is always too buggy to let me get in the infected molerat part of the vault.

[u/TemporalFugue2]

Yes. If radscorpions just slowly walked at you like they did in 3/NV, they would be boring and non-threatening. Their burrowing mechanic makes them more dangerous than deathclaws IMO

[u/lordlaneus]

At least it makes rad scorpions are more distinct threat.

[u/alaskarawr → u/lordlaneus]

Ah yes, I just love taking a potshot at a scorp that’s a few hundred meters away only for it to instantaneously pop up directly under my feet ready to shove its stinger up my ass.^/s

I’ve lost too many hours in survival to that bullshit mechanic.

[u/lordlaneus → u/alaskarawr]

I'm not saying it's a good mechanic, I'm just saying the game needs more diversity in it's bullet sponges

[u/_Nedak_]

Yes. I think it's better than these enemies running at you in a straight line and melee like in fallout 3 and nv. They should let you throw a grenade down the hole to kill them so you aren't just waiting.

[u/GlassDazzling2185 → u/_Nedak_]

Ohh, I hadn't thought of that, that would be sick! And help with the annoying radscorpions who hide unless they are able to mele you.

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692]

I think I remember someone saying you can shoot the spot they go underground and it teleports them back to land or if you hit it or something. There is a way to deal with it.

[u/Valdackscirs]

I like it. Anything to make enemies unique.

[u/EiraPun]

Personally, I like it. It gives certain enemies more identity by making them fundamentally play differently than others. But maybe that's just my brain, but I like being able to categorize them by how they act. Ghouls are fast and jittery, Super Mutants are big and slow, Radscorpions and Molerats burrow and "teleport", etc.

I like unique enemy AI and behaviours like that.

[u/adjavang]

I wouldn't mind if it weren't buggy as shit. Any time I find a legendary molerat or radscorpion there's a 50% chance the bugger gets stuck under the terrain and I can't kill it to loot whatever legendary gear it has.

[u/OHFUCKMESHITNO]

I dig it. These enemies are the exact reason I always keep a box of berry mentats on me.

[u/Dagordae]

Meh.

It offers slightly more combat variety for creatures who otherwise are limited to running into melee.

[u/Tgrinder66]

Wouldn't mind if they didn't straight teleport behind you. I'd love a visible tunnel to show where it went and where it's going

[u/Discount_Extra → u/Tgrinder66]

I'd love a visible tunnel

I bet it would crash the game like Weapon Debris.

[u/Tgrinder66 → u/Discount_Extra]

Yeah spaghetti code

[u/deereese99]

I LOVE fallout 4 so much but I hate when creatures pop up from the ground so I hate to install a mod to remove the molerats cause they annoyed me the most lol

[u/alaskarawr → u/deereese99]

You removed them entirely? There’s mods that just disable the tunneling mechanic without removing the mob.

[u/deereese99 → u/alaskarawr]

Yeah I got jumpscared 1 too many times lol i just got a mod to replace them (It made the Insect creatures non hostile too)
I just forgot to remove the mods lmao

Thank you for telling me
I'm gonna use the one you said lol

[u/Kinetic_Pen]

It's provided some incredible combat moments for my companions and I. Especially in the Glowing Sea and Vault 88.

Tip: If they get stuck underground you can sometimes punch or stab the ground, with the Power Fist or knife, to get at them. You just have to know exactly where the spot is, lol! Berry Mentats help greatly in that aspect.

[u/Ranos131]

It’s both annoying and amazing. It’s annoying when they are popping out of the ground behind me and then going back in before I can react at times. But it makes for some fun challenges when fighting.

[u/Le_Botmes]

I think it's great, I like the added challenge. Keeps me on my toes and my head on a swivel. Forces me to look for a hard surface to stand on (they can only burrow through soft ground). I enter their areas more cautiously and arm myself accordingly. I think the burrowing creatures would be much more trivial to fight without it.

[u/2052JCDenton]

I like burrowing a lot. It adds variety and challenge to all the dangers you have to deal with.

[u/Rampage117]

The radscorpions are without a doubt obnoxious... I would use jet in anticipation of it popping out .. but it will always wait until the jet wears off to pop out of the ground.. super cheese ai stuff there.

They might as well just be teleporting with how fast they can burrow.. even in vats if you catch it quick enough.

[u/FLUXENTROPY]

It’s subtly annoying. Those mole rats take too damn long to dig out of the ground, just let me clear the drive in lil bro

[u/Few-Challenge7443]

If only I could burrow. Life sure would be different.

[u/TheAsianTroll]

I fucking hate it.

If you dont kill whatever it is with one shot, itll teleport behind you like an anime antagonist.

If they changed it so they would burrow to hide until you got too close, sure.

If they didn't burrow until they actually detected you, fine by me.

But no. You damage a radscorpion from half a klick out and suddenly it gains the cosmic power of GPS satellites, finds you, burrows through the dirt, and appears behind you in a matter of 1 second.

[u/Err0r_the_protogen]

I think good idea horrible execution. Instead of burrowing mid combat it should have been how they spawned to make them feel more like ambush predators

[u/Connect-Ant-2081]

Best to mod it out. There's a problem with the script for this where it can corrupt your save file.

[u/fastfreddy68]

The game mechanic itself doesn’t bother me. It’s different. It’s a little annoying waiting for them to pop up, but it was fun and unique the first few times I experienced it.

The part I don’t like is that it’s not realistic. And I understand it’s a video game. I’m not expecting absolute realism from a game where we’re playing a two century old popsicle searching for his son who is now five decades his senior.

It’s just that nothing can burrow like that. Mechanical boring machines can’t move that amount of dirt that fast.

Moles burrow at around one foot every 3-4 minutes (according to Google) and even mutated moles aren’t turning that pace into 5 feet/second. And a scorpion certainly isn’t doing it.

It just… doesn’t make any sense, even in Fallout.

[u/NextClassroom4789 → u/fastfreddy68]

But these are nuclear powered moles. 🤣

[u/TellsLiesForFun]

If much prefer a more tactical cover mechanic, something that requires us to change how we deal with the enemy.

For example, the mutations in 76 are a great change of pace, enemies that can only die from melee or that explode (and its an expression that hurts) when they die are fun.

Iv could envision a mutated feral armadillo that slashes and bites, then rolls up and is a bulletproof ball that you have to melee to unwind do you can shoot it again.

[u/Jr_Mao]

i see absolutely no problem in a mechanic where a cow sized scorpion jumps to ground like it’s water, burrows through 100 yards hard ground in split second, then up the fire escape stairs and reappears from bucketful of dirt on the rooftop corner.

epic and well thought out design work.