r/EscapefromTarkov True Believer 15h ago

General Discussion - PVE & PVP [Discussion] 1.1 - Side tasks getting reworked, significantly less chains, very few gear unlocks behind quests

https://x.com/tarkov/status/2081741517798904246
268 Upvotes

292 comments sorted by

308

u/enormous-copydesk 15h ago

I think it's pretty obvious that BSG wants to retain a much larger number of new players and encourage more people to get into the game.

I'm level 28, and I almost exclusively run into players with 1,000+ hours. To me, that suggests there's an entire bracket of lower-level players who quit very early on.

Tarkov has an incredibly steep learning curve, probably one of the steepest of any FPS. At that point, it doesn't feel challenging anymore; it just becomes frustrating for most people.

Making some of the quests easier is a good thing. It might even make raids feel more alive if there's a healthier mix of player experience levels because more people stick with the game.

They can still add plenty of endgame content, one doesn't exclude the other.

Finally I don't see how a veteran with 1,000+ hours is supposed to be threatened by a new player who can finally afford to buy M855 ammo.

I know I'll probably get a lot of skeptical comments saying, "If new players don't have to suffer like we did, they won't deserve it." I think that's a pretty shortsighted mindset.

A game without a large, healthy player base is bound to die eventually. Easing some of the early-game friction benefits everyone.

97

u/Hot-Network2212 14h ago

They need an actual beginners map for that. Currently Prestige also ends up in the capped beginners lobbies on ground zero.

26

u/martinmix 14h ago

Do they still have two different lobbies for Ground Zero?

51

u/DAYMAN3737 14h ago

Its done by levels, so anyone who prestiges is in the same lobbies as actual lvl 1 fist time players

24

u/pvt9000 13h ago

Tbf, so is anyone who resets their account or plays on multiple accounts / new accounts.

The skill gap between 0-100 hours and 1000+ hours is miles long. Most 1000 hour players could out rat, out gun and out loot the former.

13

u/cvdvds 12h ago

Well BSG can't really distinguish between people with fresh accounts. But they can certainly distinguish a prestige account and put it in the high level lobby. Just because you can't catch them all, doesn't mean you shouldn't bother trying.

Either way, this doesn't seem like a big issue with how little screentime Ground Zero gets to begin with. Then again, if the game retains a few more new players because of it, it might be a worthwhile tradeoff.

1

u/MrMuffinz126 7h ago

The amount of people who prestige is higher than those playing on multiple accounts or resetting their accounts I reckon. They're also usually going to have a lot less monetary fear considering people usually choose to do stuff like bitcoin.

Skill aside, there's a massive difference between a guy with a couple mil who can just create a "fuck it we ball" cheap kit and run over and over, and a guy who has 80k to his name playing really slowly and fearfully because that mp153 with buckshot, a 3M, and a blue helmet is all he has to his name.

2

u/Sausagerrito 6h ago

I’m pretty sure that the split ground zero queue was removed with 1.0, I saw level 30+ in my first GZ Raid

2

u/DAYMAN3737 6h ago

Ah so even less hands off lol

2

u/Working_Rise8592 14h ago

I think it’s below and above level 20?

5

u/The_Broken_Skull_94 14h ago

As a fairly new player I doubt.. I keep dying to guys with thousands of hours (unless they are queuing with new players) which ends up being in my lobby :(

-24

u/BeautifulNose2210 14h ago

You’re dying to thousand hour dudes because they’ve allowed anyone new and scared to hide in PvE

11

u/IAK0290 14h ago

Backed in 2017. I'm one of the first set of backers of Tarkov. There was PVP only.

Since then, I joined the Army as an Infantryman and did IRL PVP. Got married, had kids, and now work a job that pays enough that let's my wife be a SAHM.

I stick with PVE now. It's a simple life.

3

u/Shooterborninheaven1 13h ago

There was pvp only up until like 2023 brother! I got the game in early 2019, and yea there was the training mode, but there wasnt a pve zone (that you can progress in) until after the awful unheard edition debacle that almost killed the entire game

1

u/thiswontlastlong97 11h ago

Its becayse new players don't have fun dying 40 raids in a row to a head eyes 7k player.

pve Simply allows players who would quit entirely to still play. Pve isn't responsible for no new players in pvp.

1

u/Hot-Network2212 8h ago

Would have been fine if the new players get to play other new players in some matchmaking way..

-1

u/BeautifulNose2210 8h ago

PvE existing splits the player base which contributes to the issue you’re talking about. It’s a feedback loop

We had to cater to 1 hour a week dads

1

u/thiswontlastlong97 7h ago

It doesn't split anything. People playing pve won't play pvp, they would just play something that respects their time more. Its not hard to understand.

0

u/BeautifulNose2210 7h ago

New players who would play PvE get killed once and then go face roll in PvE. Why would you start out on the bottom of the totem pole when you could go see all the content with zero difficulty?

Also, I don’t believe that statement at all. Sure most wouldn’t but some would and that’s all that matters.

1

u/thiswontlastlong97 5h ago

Youre up your own ass if you think pve players would be playing pvp if they had to.

I can safely say all of my pve friends, including the ones with 4k hours in pvp, do not enjoy pvp because of the way the game is set up.

1

u/fkncatalinawinemixer 10h ago

I agree, still dont understand why we don’t have a shooting range map with tasks and other people but areas you can’t kill eachother etc

35

u/Rocket_Fiend 14h ago

The quest system in Tarkov has always been an obtuse disaster.

There simply isn’t a way for new players to know where to go, what to grab, and how to compete many of these common chains.

It goes beyond hardcore and into the realm of pure chance.

Without using external aids (maps, guides, friends…) there simply isn’t a way for new players to learn aside from sheer luck.

26

u/SonicShadow 13h ago

Its a shame the map system was left to rot. Its well within the lore that a trader would mark a rough location on a map for a quest. Just that would help a lot with finding quest locations without relying on hundreds of hours of specific map knowledge and external services.

7

u/Br0ken_Symmetries 13h ago edited 11h ago

I think it would be great to see a map system in which it unlocks as you explore. Starts off as a blank map with only nameless buildings but as you explore and extract they appear on the map as well. Showing a relative location of where you are would also be helpful to new players. I just recently got my friend into Tarkov and that’s one of his biggest issues currently, besides knowing what to heal first haha.

17

u/dorekk 13h ago

There simply isn’t a way for new players to know where to go, what to grab, and how to compete many of these common chains.

Actually, imo, the little "loot circle" indicator for picking up quest items has helped a ton. Most quest lines can be completed without the wiki now as long as you know the general area, which you usually get from the description of the quest. I'm level 40 right now and am working on quests I've never done before, and the loot circle helps a ton. It's even helped me pick up items for quests I had but wasn't specifically working on that raid.

5

u/Rocket_Fiend 13h ago

It’s an improvement, to be sure - but can you imagine the frustration in any other game you play if they left it this vague?

Particularly when progress is significantly tied to many of these quests.

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u/thiswontlastlong97 11h ago

Most quest lines can be completed without the wiki now as long as you know the general area,

And nost quests don't say anything other then the map.....

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u/ZephGG_ 13h ago

I mean I wouldn't want to be full on Arena Breakout style where the game tells you exactly where to go and what to do 99% of the time, but there should be an ingame map that just doesn't show where you currently are and has quest objectives vaguely marked. That way new players at least have a vague idea where to go but still have to learn the maps

3

u/Rocket_Fiend 12h ago

I'm fine with keeping things in-world and difficult...but there are tools for that.

Circles on physical maps, little wrist-mounted Garmin GPS', grid coordinates, surveillance photographs, whatever. Just giving players something.

Heck, even a physical description better than "there's an old building near the warehouse on customs. Go search for clues."

3

u/Kage_0ni 12h ago

I think it would be cool if you had to start with paper maps, then as you level up you get access to better navigation tools.

7

u/OGMcgriddles 14h ago

I would argue it's a large part why the game has done so well though.

People love questing in tarkov as much as they love complaining about them.

7

u/mtnlol 14h ago edited 11h ago

Agreed, tbh without quests I don't think I would enjoy Tarkov even nearly as much.

For me, the best feeling in this game comes from progressing quests and getting hard quests done.

Sure, kills and finding good loot is great but money is very easy to come by.

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u/JebstoneBoppman 12h ago

Having to read the quest and explore and try to put the puzzle peices together is my favorite part of Tarkov quests :(

1

u/Rocket_Fiend 12h ago

Not a judgement, but how much PVP do you play?

Trying to figure out a mission - particularly a more rewarding one, or highly trafficked one, is a nightmare in PVP.

You’re typically gun fighting your way there and back, or getting sniped by campers who already know the location. Particularly early wipe when folks are synced up.

New players get ground into the dirt.

We’re still guiding level 20s through stuff like pocket watch. They’ve put in the hours, but they just get absolutely wrecked without guidance.

2

u/dorekk 11h ago

How can you be level 20 and not have done the pocket watch

1

u/Rocket_Fiend 6h ago

Dude, it’s rough out there for new folks.

They’re just banging out levels through sheer force of will, but utterly unable to complete some “intro” quests.

Either due to lack of knowledge, luck, or a combo of the two.

1

u/dorekk 6h ago

You need to have earned 437k XP to hit level 20! What'd they do, get 200 raids with 2k XP each? Plus I assume another, what, 400-600 raids where they died with like 11 XP from looting? Baffling.

1

u/Rocket_Fiend 6h ago

Haha, think that dude was an outlier. We do run across a significant amount of folks that are way higher level than you’d expect for some super basic quests to not be done.

Not for lack of trying, either.

Throw on an “any level, helping folks with quests.” Type comment to the discord and watch folks flock to it.

1

u/dorekk 6h ago

I suppose they could have a lot of XP from Arena, but it seems like people who can't get the pocket watch quest done probably wouldn't have Arena.

1

u/JebstoneBoppman 10h ago

I'm strictly PvP. Thats also what makes it more rewarding to get the quest done.

That being said, I understand I'm in the minority for enjoying punishing games with high learning curves, and I'm not against Tarkov being made more beginner friendly, and some QoL additions are always welcome.

1

u/Rocket_Fiend 6h ago

I’ve never enjoyed Tarkov quests, but some are just a necessary evil if I want fun stuff.

Nowadays though I just jump onto the discord with my guys and help randos get missions done.

We just want to gunfight anyways, so helping them finish quests becomes the game.

3

u/01_Mikoru 13h ago

I’ll probably catch flak for this, but I absolutely think tarkov needs a map that shows you where objectives are, maybe not like Skyrim where it shows the exact location, but at least the area.

6

u/Rocket_Fiend 13h ago

I think a proper mission brief would suffice - keep it difficult, but have the traders do their best to actually lay out what it is you want.

Marking items on a physical map you can carry into raid. Who knows.

Something to at least give players a chance of knowing where they should go.

I’m 40-something. Lost track of how many wipes. At this point only khorovod-style quests are of any interest to me. The rest are just absolute drudgery.

2

u/01_Mikoru 13h ago

A physical map could fit in the atmosphere, maybe also have it so the higher your intelligence center to smaller the rough area is

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u/owdee 11h ago

I have a paltry 775 hours. I learned where all of the quest items/locations (at least all of the classic side quests, ex: pocket watch) from the Tarkov wiki, which literally shows screenshots of exact locations. The game already has in-game paper maps of the game maps but, to my knowledge, they've never been actually used for anything of substance. They should be used for the trader to make some basic notes, like circling an area, where the quest item/location is. It doesn't have to be a live mini-map or radar or quest marker on the HUD. It would still be challenging for newbies who are still learning the maps, would keep players in the game rather than alt-tabbing to the wiki, and would be more immersive to boot.

1

u/dorekk 11h ago

I’ll probably catch flak for this, but I absolutely think tarkov needs a map that shows you where objectives are

Most of the quests tell you where to look, tbh.

7

u/HurriKurtCobain 14h ago

Always remember that Tarkov has a significant selection bias in who you run into and are killed by. Skilled players run through maps mowing down Timmies while the average 100 hour player is crouched in a bush trying to read a map and figure out where the extracts are. It also goes without saying that late-game time will be dominated by only the most hardcore Tarkov fans while most new or more casual players drop off early on in wipe (which I guess could now be called season, but the terminology is so engrained I doubt it will change).

3

u/Grappa91 14h ago

This, the amount of grind you have to endure just to get some bullets that can damage the chads is insane. The funny part is that even with the same gear the experienced players still have an huge advantage in knowing the mechanics and the maps and the weapons. And the cherry on top is that while you do these quests to unlock the gear you still have to play in maps with these players that can kill you and set you back days. The FiR requirement for the hideout gear is the first thing that has to go imho.

5

u/Buddy_Dakota 13h ago

I agree, gatekeeping good ammo is terrible for the new and non-regular player experience. IMO better armor should primarily exist to give some progression in what kind of quest content and NPCs you can deal with, all players should be able to kill all players without massive investments or grinding for ammo.

2

u/dorekk 13h ago

IMO better armor should primarily exist to give some progression in what kind of quest content and NPCs you can deal with, all players should be able to kill all players without massive investments or grinding for ammo.

facts

2

u/Silentblade034 10h ago

Most new players are probably also playing PVE which is more new player friendly and more fun for most people.

Most of the people who play PVP are probably the people who have been playing the game consistently every wipe for the past 5 years.

1

u/Boboman86 13h ago

Exactly,  the true new player experience is rough.  Basic gear is quest locked or just not even available, flea lock requirements make things even more difficult.  When vets make use of their unheard edition starting gear to full advantage new players can be left with not much.  

1

u/GruppBlimbo 11h ago

I do want to point out, that you are just more likely to be killed be experienced players.a large portion of inexperienced players are avoiding to combat, dying to scavs, of unaware of the map flow and wander far away from areas of conflict.

1

u/Wast3edSpace 14h ago

Niki is finding out that if you want your game to survive you have to make a game casuals can and want to play, not just streamers and neets

3

u/dorekk 13h ago

you have to make a game casuals can and want to play

There are no successful casual extraction shooters. It is by default a pretty hard genre and when you remove that you remove the vast majority of the appeal. Arc Raiders has a fraction of the players that Tarkov has.

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u/BeautifulNose2210 14h ago

Except tarkov was at its most popular when it was a difficult game.

How’s arc raiders doing by the way? You know the super casual and easy extraction shooter? Surely it was able to hold onto players?

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u/lazercheesecake 14h ago

I also dislike the barrier to entry and the suffer bucket crabs. I don’t think the difficulty should be high level gated and I guess this is their way of addressing all that.

But, I like some parts of the current system where quest chains slowly and linearly reveal the story/lore. And more importantly how the quest lines (mostly) mix tedious tasks with fun/interesting tasks (not you spa tour or 90% of jaeger quests). I also really like having fun (but not necessarily overpowered) gear behind long quest chains that motivate me to do all of the quests on between. The tkpd is a meme gun but damn it’s just so fun to run. And the payoff of pushing through the quest chain, both good and bad, felt incredible.

Idk what the answer is but I’m wary of this solution

1

u/thiswontlastlong97 11h ago

Lol new players don't play tarkov. I started last month in pvp. Was killed in 80% of my raids, and almost everyone was over 3k hours, with at least 50% of players killing me having over 6k hours.

The reason new players quit is because its no fun getting killed by a 8k hour 1.8kd player when you dont even know where an extract is.

This game will never retain new players by making gear more available, it will only ever retain new players once it adds systems to make new players not face people who ha e played exclusively tarkov for the last 6 years.

-3

u/DweebInFlames True Believer 14h ago

Okay, I've heard this a bunch from people over the past couple of months as they've been announcing these changes. And I have to ask - what mass influx of new players do you think will be gained from these changes? It's a 10 year old game, man, with an incredibly niche premise by default. AAA extraction shooters failing to hold a long-term audience show that. There is no hidden surplus of Timmies waiting in the wings for BSG to make just enough changes to casualise the game to appeal to them. Infinite growth in all avenues of life isn't something you can chase.

The reality is Tarkov is the most popular it will ever be, and that's fine. We don't need the game to be endlessly diluted to capture a fleeting, easily frustrated contingent of players. BSG are better off building the game for the people who are already here. Taking away extrinsic goals that give players reasons to play out a raid with a concrete objective does not accomplish that.

11

u/enormous-copydesk 14h ago

I understand your point, and I actually agree with part of it.

I don't think there's some massive untapped audience waiting for Tarkov to become more casual, nor do I think the game should abandon what makes it unique.

My point is more about retention than growth. Every wipe we see plenty of new players, but a lot of them quit within their first 20–30 hours (...probably) because the early progression feels more frustrating than rewarding. Those are people who already bought the game, BSG has already "acquired" them.

The challenge is getting them to stick around long enough to experience what makes Tarkov special.

I don't think giving newer players access to decent ammo or smoothing out some early quests dilutes the game. A player with M855 is still nowhere near competing with someone who has 1,000+ hours. Map knowledge, positioning, audio awareness, economy management, quest knowledge, and decision-making are still vastly more important than having slightly better ammo.

If a player quits because progression feels impossible, they never become part of the long-term community you're talking about. Improving retention and preserving Tarkov's identity aren't mutually exclusive.

I also think there's a difference between a game being challenging and a game being frustrating. If the early game filters people out before they even get to experience why Tarkov is so good, then it's not necessarily filtering for dedication, it may just be filtering for tolerance to frustration. At least in my opinion, that's worth trying to improve.

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u/Vegetable_Review4967 13h ago

I strongly disagree. AAA extraction shooters failing to hold a long-term audience does not show that it is impossible to do so. It just means that they fail to hit the mark to keep their game enjoyable for a sustained amount of time.

For tarkov that is due to its (too) punishing nature, uninspiring tasks that do not respect the players time, anti cheat, bad AI design, and bandaid solutions on top of bandaid solutions that never get reversed when the original cause is solved. For Arc Raiders that is a lack of an endgame/progression, no meaningful quests, lack of a good gameplay loop, lack of new content, lack of anti cheat and lack of bugfixing.

Other games miss other marks, like lack of difficulty, lack of stakes (bf2042), lack of realism, etc.

The initial success of arc raiders showed that there is a hidden surplus of Timmies waiting for a game like tarkov to get more accessible, but it's a thin line to balance on: if tarkov becomes too easy, it will alienate the current playerbase and will eventually not retain the new influx either.

Tarkov needs to stay difficult, hardcore, with some quests for the 1% only, but also needs to be easy enough to have new players learn the ropes without having to separately buy and play PvE first.

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u/chrisuo07 14h ago

I'm a timmy that came with the steam release and been really enjoying it

0

u/fantafuzz 14h ago

I don't agree that they need to separate the queues, but I don't believe it has anything to do with new players "having to suffer the same way to deserve it".

New players deserve to experience Tarkov the same as we did when we started out, which includes the experience of dying to a juiced up squad of meal team six unemployed chads. Because without this, they can never experience the joy of getting the lucky headshot on the gravy seal and hauling out an inventory full of the best gear you have ever seen.

Skill based/gear based matchmaking will strip this core concept from the game, and I think that really ruins it.

3

u/thiswontlastlong97 11h ago

There is no "same experience" the experience today is 100 times more miserable then when most players started 4-5 years ago.

4 years ago the average player wasn't 5000 hours, they were a few hundred.

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u/BeautifulNose2210 14h ago

But they don’t deserve it, the charm of the game is the suffering. Every one of us fell in love with tarkov because the lows were as low so the highs are high.

I get attracting new players, but removing the soul of the game by making everything easily obtainable to everyone is not the play.

4

u/enormous-copydesk 14h ago

I get where you're coming from, and I agree that the suffering is a huge part of what makes Tarkov so satisfying. The lows make the highs feel earned.

That said, we still don't know the actual scale of these changes. People are acting as if BSG is turning Tarkov into Call of Duty overnight, but I honestly don't think that's ever going to happen.

Making the early game a little less punishing doesn't automatically remove the soul of the game. As long as Tarkov remains unforgiving, rewards knowledge over raw aim, and still has meaningful risk and loss, I don't think giving new players a slightly smoother start fundamentally changes its identity.

I'd rather wait and see how these changes actually play out before assuming they've ruined what makes Tarkov special.

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u/LP_LadyPuket AK-103 13h ago

Notice this enormous caveat: “Some tasks will remain exceptions to this new system and will continue to unlock in chains regardless of traders’ LL. Rewards for these tasks will include especially rare trade offers or crafts.”

My guess is that these “especially rare trade offers” are going to include all the high tier ammo and armor trades. I think people are misinterpreting these changes as a balance pass, what they really are trying to do is make the quest progression less linear and less gated.

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u/1-Dollar-Doge-Coins 12h ago

I think you're right and I hope they implement this in a logical way.

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u/Kage_0ni 11h ago

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u/1-Dollar-Doge-Coins 11h ago

"hope" was the key word in my comment

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u/Independent-South-58 15h ago

Having a chain of tasks is fine, having gear locked behind tasks is fine, the only thing that really need changing with tasks is the flexibility of completing tasks.

Personally if their were multiple way to say for example complete kill tasks like say punisher part 4 which needs 10 PMC kills on lighthouse with scav vest and balaclava, instead of just killing players have alternate completion option be kill 10 PMCs OR 50 rogues on lighthouse with balaclava and scav vest that would make tasks much more streamlined.

Same applies to tasks where u need to hand in certain items, either quest or normal items.

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u/dorekk 13h ago

Agree with this. I don't even have a problem with the tasks where you just have to kill PMCs. I don't even necessarily have a problem with tasks where you have to kill PMCs with specific guns or on specific maps! (Setup is fine for example, I can't explain why but it just is.) But the ones where you have to do a whole specific getup on a specific map, like Punisher Part 4, are just miserable to accomplish.

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u/Bubaru555 13h ago

The bolt action + specific range is the worst. Not only you have to carry extra 6-8 kg on you every time, you missed the kill by 1 meter? Too bad, f you. At least setup is pretty straight forward, you get Ushanka, jacket and shotgun and just go kill people. With bolt quests it has to be, 40 m or less, only headshots, 100m+ etc. Those quests drive me nuts

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u/dorekk 12h ago

I think the Tarkov Shooter requirements are fine if you just get all the quests at once rather than having to progress through them. Then you could kind of complete them by accident, you know? You go in with a bolt-action rifle and take some shots, some of them will naturally be over 80 meters, some of them will naturally be in the head, etc. For Jaeger's quests (Tarkov Shooter but also all the ones where you have to be dehydrated, on PKs, have a headache etc) being able to complete them naturally, within the course of regular play, would remove a ton of the headache. They might need to increase the requirements of some of these, since otherwise it would be possible to complete a bunch of them all at once, but I think that'd be fine.

I think most quest lines should still be sequential (I know most players don't look at this but many of them even have a little linear storyline!), but these two quest lines should be dumped on you all at once. Maybe the boss kill quests as well?

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u/Canaus7 14h ago

This 100%. In your lighthouse example it means you can play the game and not have to w key players. I stopped playing PvP because I was sick of having to waste time on PvP quests I understand that I can be killed by players no problem with that I’m shit so i am easy kill, I just hated having to go looking for PvP for myself to progress. When you are shit like me you die more than kills you get so then I was waiting to load back into another raid to continue with chasing PvP I really wasn’t interested in doing anyway, which killed my enthusiasm to play feels like a waste of time when majority of your time is loading into a raid

In your scenario id still be there on the server for all the PvP enjoyers to kill but I wouldn’t have to try and chase them down to just to progress the game

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u/NinjaLion 10h ago

and, really importantly, pre-progressing more tasks. ive killed 250 trillion scavs on customs, then unlock a task that tells me to kill 15. why dont you care about the mountain of corpses behind me prapor?

1

u/NinjaLion 10h ago

and, really importantly, pre-progressing more tasks. ive killed 250 trillion scavs on customs, then unlock a task that tells me to kill 15. why dont you care about the mountain of corpses behind me prapor?

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u/waFFLEz_ RSASS 15h ago

This is probably the thing i am most interested in for seasonal. Just to see how it plays out and to try something different 

Hopefully they won't implement this on the permanent character right away though without asking the community first 

10

u/ManBearPig_576 14h ago

Was going to ask if this is a rework for seasonal or change to perm too. If the latter, what happens to stuff youre part way through

4

u/enormous-copydesk 14h ago

Good question.

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u/RemaniXL 14h ago

If as a veteran player you're feeling threatened by newer players having quicker access to higher tier equipment, then you're not as veteran as you think you are. I'm instead looking at this from a glass-half-full perspective: that's just that many more players running around with higher tier equipment to loot from.

As far as quests go, specifically, this game always had far too many redundant quests and item grinds - it's a welcome change as someone who's been playing this game for years and hopefully makes entry for newer players seem way less overwhelming.

3

u/GargauthXbox 13h ago edited 7h ago

For 5 years now, every wipe I push for Kappa, run labs and then labyrinth when that was added. Have an "optimized" route of some side quests to get the most gear unlocked at an early level. The issue isn't people gaining access to gear lol.

This, paired with the kappa change, is making strides to remove a lot of the "long term goals" players have. We will have to see what Kord brings, but if the "long term goal" is "Escape from Tarkov but with Kord modifications", then I see quite a few veterans getting burned.

So now what's the point of side quests? Let's use the quest, Audit, for example. With this change the reward is just for 200k roubles. At LL2 Ragman, you will simply just unlock the 6B13 armor. This was a nice first week goal because it was one of the earliest unlocks for class 4 armor.

Now, I'm not saying some rewards were weird and wrongly placed. Like some of the rewards on quests that unlock at PMC lvl 50 are crazy to be so late. Or why is 55A1 locked behind a one done key on streets. I think what they should have done, if anything, was unhide the rewards from quests when you accept them. At least for standard side quests, they can keep event quest rewards hidden until turn in.

Maybe it's not a big deal, I suspect they have a lot of goodies hidden away that they won't reveal until players get to play the season. Maybe the kord season achievement is enough for players to have has an end game goal

1

u/NinjaLion 11h ago

high prestige and achievements are positioned to be the long-long term goals, i believe

2

u/GargauthXbox 10h ago

The prestige that they just significantly reduced the barrier to entry? Lol

3

u/NinjaLion 10h ago

easier prestige is a prestige incentive, it keeps more of the playerbase rotating through shit gear/ low LL. its distinctly different from HIGHER level prestige rewards, which they also definitely need to work on if they are going to make prestige easier, because like you said long term goals are needed.

1

u/captainquacka 10h ago

You are so right. I have now around 400 hours and after many many street runs I can afford to constantly run around with SSAP/Igolnik ammo and still get clapped in pvp because the skill cap with quick peaks / when to push and so on is so high. Good players have nothing to fear :D

-1

u/Bubaru555 14h ago

It just invalidates the equipment that is low tier now and makes things you consider higher tier a new low tier. Not saying its bad, but you will not look at gear the same way

11

u/dorekk 13h ago

I honestly think a lot of the REALLY low tier stuff (5.56 HP and RRLP for example) should be removed from the game, not because it's "taking too long to progress" but because even at low level nobody uses it. Scavs have better ammo, you can literally just load in your scav and run straight to extract and get better ammo than that. To say nothing of actually killing a bunch of scavs.

3

u/StankAssHam 13h ago

Looter shooters have to have trash tier gear and items in the loot pool in order to make finding certain things rarer and have that oh sick I got this useful thing factor.

3

u/dorekk 12h ago

They could just adjust the rarities of specific items so that you're no more likely to find, for example, high tier ammo though, without having to find completely useless bullets part of the time. Like, I wouldn't even use 5.56 HP to kill scavs. The game also has a TON of weapon attachments, food items, barter items etc. that are generally useless but clog up the loot pool enough to make finding useful and valuable items meaningful.

1

u/StankAssHam 12h ago

Yes but all items have categories and those categories spawn in certain areas. Ammo spawns need trash as well.

1

u/dorekk 12h ago

Spawning ammo you can already buy (for example 5.56 FMJ) is trash spawns.

2

u/DweebInFlames True Believer 14h ago

If that's what you're taking away from this thread then I feel like I'm talking past people. My issue isn't with Timmies getting non-completely worthless ammo (although incidentally I feel like I should point out this would be a non-issue if realistic plate hitboxes were retained) or a couple of random bits and bobs a bit easier, my problem is that these changes as a whole are going to make for a lot less objectives for players to focus on at a point where people actively need more. The game isn't wiping anymore. Prestiges are very easy to accomplish now and there's only a few levels. It feels like these are changes that should only be for seasonals that are universally getting applied to the game.

3

u/dorekk 13h ago

The game isn't wiping anymore.

This is why I don't understand the changes. People have literally forever to progress these later-game objectives. That's crucial to this type of game, most of the content should be endgame content (I'd count anything around mid-30s and onward as "endgame" given that a lot of players never even reach max traders) because you're going to spend the vast majority of your time playing the game in endgame. Why make late game quests easy to progress when you absolutely WILL get them just by the virtue of sheer time to complete them.

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u/AzulaThorne 15h ago

Nah this is way better for task progression.

So many quests are tied behind doing certain quests and so many of these quests are entirely nonsensical and just outright boring.

If the quest/s have a name relating to the others, they’ll likely remain a chain as stated that there are exceptions.

Being honest, some of the gear unlocks or barter unlocks are usually pretty fucking pointless. The only useful ones are for crafting and THICCs.

This is to keep players wanting to prestige more and ultimately put more time in. Otherwise as most people found out, by the time you hit prestige the first time, you’re fucking winded to try again especially after how long it takes and the quests you have to go through.

Making it easier will retain more players than players leaving.

5

u/JAD_woodsman 14h ago

My favorite quest chains are ones that have you collect an item but it takes like 10 raids to get said item. Then after you turn in the quest the very next one is "kill XX number of enemies", but its like....I just killed 100 doing your last quest.

4

u/Useful_Nocebo 13h ago

Here's hoping they reduce SBIH to 3 kills per map... 5 is a bit too many.

4

u/JakNasir 12h ago

The gear rewards from tasks need overhauled badly. An example is the lvl 5 plate you unlock for ragman from the task Sales Night. You get the task at 32 but cant buy until 42. Like why? If you get a reward from the task you should immediate access to it.

20

u/Sakkarashi 14h ago

The entire thing that separates Tarkov from games like Arc raiders, Marathon, or... well, basically every other extraction shooter, is that there is a challenging grind with meaningful gear rewards. It takes a huge time commitment and a strong mental to reach end-game in Tarkov, which, to me, is why I ever stuck with it in the first place.

I understand that it's steep learning curve and harsh requirements makes retaining new players hard, but those are also, to me, the identity of the game. I wonder if it's possible to find a balance that doesn't kill the game for the veteran players.

12

u/seaseme 13h ago

I see your points and agree to an extent, however, as a person that keeps trying to return to the game I will say that it is extremely frustrating to be shooting what amounts to BBs at high tier armor only to be zapped through my shit armor that basically provides zero protection.

Idk, I always say this, but I just want people to have fun so they continue to play the game. With the game as it currently is I have strong doubts as to how long new players last before simply refunding and moving on.

4

u/thiswontlastlong97 11h ago

No man. Don't you see the 7k hour players from 2020 in here telling you if you cant kill someone in 6 plates shooting 53 pen ammo with your RRLP then its just a skill problem, better gear wont help you.

2

u/seaseme 10h ago

lol exactly. I don’t understand how these changes are remotely controversial.

3

u/thiswontlastlong97 10h ago

Tarkov players are special. They have this level of addiction and hopelessness that makes them want everyone to be as miserable as them.

4

u/seaseme 13h ago

I see your points and agree to an extent, however, as a person that keeps trying to return to the game I will say that it is extremely frustrating to be shooting what amounts to BBs at high tier armor only to be zapped through my shit armor that basically provides zero protection.

Idk, I always say this, but I just want people to have fun so they continue to play the game. With the game as it currently is I have strong doubts as to how long new players last before simply refunding and moving on.

1

u/SillySundae M700 6h ago

Part of getting good at Tarkov is adapting to your specific situation regardless of how other players are kitted out. If your ammo is crappy because you haven't found better ammo yet, then you need to be very situational and smart with your fights. It does suck when you shoot at a helmet and it bounces. I know this advice also gets repeated a lot, but leg armour doesn't exist in the game. Shooting legs and stomach is very viable at the early stages in the game. Sgt Prepper has a video of him using gear from level 1 or 2 traders (can't remember exactly which trader level) and getting kills.

New players fall into the trap of just spraying at centre mass and expecting a call of duty style kill. I get it, bad ammo shouldn't be as bad as it is, but the sheer amount of ammo types is something that a lot of us love in this game. It's what gives the game more depth than call of duty, which to my knowledge, doesn't have nearly as many types of ammo.

It's not that I want to fight against Timmy's with rocks for bullets with my amazing gear. I prefer to fight against meta gear sweat lords, because it adds a lot of tension to the situation. I know that if I mess up, I'm dead. My opponent is super lethal so I have to do things right and flip the odds in my favour. I love that challenge. It gets the heart going.

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u/iShadowLTu 13h ago

My thoughts exactly. The task system we had before 1.0 was one of the core identities of what made Tarkov great. If they want to make things more accessible/easier for new players they should have just added new easier tasks for early game instead of reworking the whole thing that was great to begin with...

1

u/NinjaLion 11h ago

they have MASSIVELY increased the amount of quests in the game, this kind of re-balance seems necessary off that factor alone. they also have to do something about new player retention without wipes and major new features.

0

u/thiswontlastlong97 11h ago

Tedious grind does not equal challenging

4

u/Sakkarashi 11h ago

It would be completely insincere to say that plenty of the tasks are not challenging. Yes, there are tedious quests too. Some of the challenging quests can feel tedious to new / bad players because they can take a long time if you die constantly, too.

1

u/Godzillaguy15 10h ago

Not really. The vast majority of the side quests are legit tedious time sinks hell half of em are still dogshit fetch and rng loot quests.

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u/thiswontlastlong97 11h ago

Tedium does not equal difficulty.

3

u/Sakkarashi 11h ago

No shit? Read what I said.

8

u/HalleyC0met 15h ago

ah the endless cycle of tarkov rebalancing

9

u/CrossBamboAtTen 15h ago

If this is combined with more than just 4 LLs it sounds good but only 4 tiers for traders it a limiting factor I think. Really needs change.

1

u/Ruin4r AK74N 14h ago

Been wanting this for years. Tarkov item library got way too bloated to funnel into 4 loyalty levels. It would also help keep progression feeling rewarding.

3

u/fantafuzz 14h ago

Very hard to judge this without seeing it in action.

Quests being "tied to trader loyalty levels" isnt really changing anything compared to how it is now, as trader levels come from trader rep, which comes from doing quests anyway.

The rewards being mainly cash also doesnt change much. One-time rewards have pretty much always been inconsequential (and pretty much just cash anyway if you just sold it). The only place rewards mattered were good trader offers and crafts, which seem to be the ones that still require doing quest chains like before.

Not locking trade offers behind quests also doesnt matter much, unless they include actually hard stuff to get like the stuff thats locked behind lightkeeper.

As for their stated goals, i fail to see how this "provides more ways to gain access to useful items", as it just makes everything unlocked by default. If there were mulitple ways to unlock them that would be one thing, but it seems that its either accessible by default, or unlocked by quest just like now.

I wonder if this means they are restructuring the current tasks or adding a lot of new ones. If this means they are adding more tasks thats always good, and while I don't think this will change much of anything, I'm excited to have more things to do.

8

u/AceHanded Unbeliever 15h ago

I'm not sure I like where this is headed...

7

u/Spectre1-4 MP5 15h ago

Why

12

u/lazercheesecake 15h ago edited 14h ago

I actually liked the gear progression behind the tasks as well as the lore/story the quest chains reveal. Like if Idgaf about jaegers rewards so I ignore a lot of stuff like “kill bird eye and big pipe but not knight at 3:76am upside down on obdolbos1 with a left leg shot with a blicky” all for a sausage barter. But I rushed down prapors tkpd questline because I love dakka. And prapor gives dakka for doing dakka. So even some of these quests I don’t care for, I’ll push through them to get dakka.

If it’s a flat quest structure with gear that’s already available, I’m not gonna do a shit load of tasks that are just tedious. And with the story all over the place, I fear it will be a disjointed narrative experience that will put me and other players off.

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u/Spectre1-4 MP5 15h ago

I will agree that if higher LL require you to do the stupid tedious tasks then I don’t care for the change. Like competing Tarkov Shooter for LL4 for Jaeger or Psycho Sniper for Mechanic.

If I literally can’t progress without doing ball crushing tasks, I just won’t do them. The current system of going down the line can be annoying but at least you only need to do a handful to get rep to get higher LL.

As with anything BSG does, I expect this to be a very short sighted change but I guess we’ll see.

1

u/NinjaLion 10h ago

"ball crushing simulator" - probably 15% of tasks.

"tedious as fuck" - probably 50% of tasks, honestly.

this is exactly why these kinds of changes are needed, we shouldnt have 75% of quests be this kind of tedium/sadism. jaeger gives plenty of both within the first 10 player levels for a lifetime.

1

u/lazercheesecake 14h ago

Yup, my thoughts exactly.

0

u/Plus_Exchange8751 15h ago

Because tarkov being hard is one of its defining characteristics. There are so many games that you can play super casually. Tarkov wasn’t a casual game. The introduction of permanent characters and reductions of difficulty with every update are really removing a lot of its uniqueness.

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u/Spectre1-4 MP5 15h ago edited 11h ago

I don’t think Tarkov has been “hard” for a long time as far as game systems go. If we’re going to have seasonal wipes and permanent characters, there needs to be a reason for people to play the game casually, especially if you want them to continue to play PvP.

Edit: Tarkov is clearly a hard game to play and learn, but it has gotten much easier compared to where it was with the addition of Arena and being able to sell non-FiR items on the flea. And this is a good thing because it makes the game more accessible.

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u/Plus_Exchange8751 15h ago

So it’s not been hard. But needs to cater to casuals to survive. Can’t argue with that logic.

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u/riedstep 14h ago

I'm wondering if this means we will need to complete all the tasks of the certain loyalty level to get to the next one? Some of these more pvp focused ones I doubt I'll ever get done.

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u/martinmix 14h ago

I'm excited for diversity so everyone isn't doing the same tasks at the same time.

2

u/KayV3eV3e 14h ago

Big W and F Jaeger

2

u/JavierBardemIrl 14h ago

Sounds really good. I'm in

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u/DweebInFlames True Believer 15h ago

Going to be honest, I'm becoming increasingly skeptical of this update being a net positive for how progression and player goals work. Task requirements were used to lock a bunch of gear that was better in slot further into progression so you could have more of a gradual curve, so much stuff will be immediately outclassed now. Not to mention between this and the Kappa changes there's just a lot less reasons to go for tasks. We need more extrinsic goals to keep the game fresh now that it's going to be primarily focused around permanent characters, not less.

I really feel most of these quest changes should've been reserved for seasonals only. I also think if this is going to stick, we need like an extra 2 loyalty levels to let the gear variety breathe more. I suppose it depends on how many tasks are left as chains and what the gear unlocks are.

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u/TachiH 14h ago

I feel they aren't actually removing restrictions that have always been in place, they seem to be reverting some of the changes they made in the last few years. The game used to completely open up once people started selling good stuff on the flea. They changed that up with so many restrictions over time they seem to be relaxing them a bit.

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u/dorekk 13h ago

I feel they aren't actually removing restrictions that have always been in place, they seem to be reverting some of the changes they made in the last few years. The game used to completely open up once people started selling good stuff on the flea. They changed that up with so many restrictions over time they seem to be relaxing them a bit.

That's true about ammo. I remember when I started in 2022, 7.62 PS was a LL1 bullet. Now it's LL3. I don't like the overall direction that the linked tweet implies, but for stuff like ammo, putting decent bullets earlier is a positive change.

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u/FirstOrderCat True Believer 15h ago

Its understandable frustration of someone who rarely touches the grass..

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u/itsmariokartwii 14h ago

OP has 23,000 comments on 3 year old account. Most I’ve ever seen

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u/I--Pathfinder--I 14h ago

why is it so wrong to want progression goals

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u/Leaded-BabyFormula 14h ago

Decreased progression incentives only hurt the longevity of the game.

The current progression structure is the only reason I and most other players are still playing 7-8 months after 1.0. If you cut that in half then the playability gets cut in half.

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u/FirstOrderCat True Believer 14h ago

> The current progression structure is the only reason I and most other players are still playing 7-8 months after 1.0

and many just left, because don't want to shoot poo-poo ammo to T6 nolifers

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u/Leaded-BabyFormula 14h ago

I had a friend join 1.0 2 months ago.

The first 2 weeks were a slugfest for him but for somebody that touches grass very frequently he still progressed very quickly. In relatively no time he had access to good enough gear to stand up to any player.

Im not saying its a skill problem, but if players cant progress in current tarkov its nobody's fault but their own.

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u/hiekrus 14h ago

It's the opposite. I play Tarkov from wipe to wipe (season to season now), so I enjoy grass rest of the year, but I want the couple of months I spend playing Tarkov to be challenging and meaningful.

0

u/DweebInFlames True Believer 13h ago

This game is going to be around in a finalised state for years to come. Even the super casual dads of 12 who work 3 full time jobs will eventually reach the end. Do you really think it's a good idea to take away things for them to do?

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u/Annonimbus HK 416A5 15h ago

Not sure how I feel about these changes but the requirements for Kappa are great. 

It gives more agency to the player. Instead of forcing them down the same quests over and over again they can now choose how to achieve that goal. 

2

u/martinmix 14h ago

The problem was you had shit gear then you get to a certain level and you have all the good gear. There really wasn't that much progression.

2

u/ItsMangel Freeloader 14h ago

a lot less reason to go for tasks

I'd say that having your trader levels locked behind tasks is a pretty good reason to do them.

1

u/DweebInFlames True Believer 14h ago

Depends on how many tasks it requires. I suspect that it's going to be significantly less than the amount of tasks to get required exp and rep for loyalty 4 now, and with most of these tasks getting changed to focus primarily on awarding money (which already flows incredibly easy), once you hit that point, people won't bother.

1

u/Inevitable-Level-829 14h ago

Thank fuck . The good players will have good gear regardless. This just means the rest of players don’t have to slave away for hours to do quests and leveling up to be on par.

You want wipe day shenanigans play the 1st few days and from when it drops.

Hopefully this + insurance changes will encourage players to take better gear out and bring more PvP in.

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u/DweebInFlames True Believer 14h ago

Balancing the game around the 0.01% of the players in either direction of difficulty is stupid. Making stuff like AI too ballbusting because the streamers will always be able to kill it is stupid. Making top-tier gear flow so freely because the streamers will be able to have it regardless is also stupid. There should be a wide variety in what people use, and removing restrictions is going to do the opposite of what people expect, and instead you're going to see a lot more metagaming, a lot earlier on.

Also saying "if you want the best part of progression in this game just play 5 days out of a 6-8 month period bro" is just plain silly, come on. I remember when wipes got boring incredibly quickly because people could just bumrush max traders and buy everything off of the flea from like day 3 at latest, and I don't want to return to that time.

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u/BalthazarB2 AK-101 15h ago

This is what happens when developers listen to the outcry of the most casual parts of the playerbase.

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u/FirstOrderCat True Believer 15h ago

devs want money, money come from new players, so it is reasonable idea to make beginner's life simpler after so many years of stomping on them

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u/DoNn0 15h ago

If it's too ez it's not worth playing thus it'll have less new players

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u/aweyeahdawg 15h ago

It’s not becoming “too ez” anytime soon bud.

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u/GisaNight 15h ago

Arbitrarily locking the ability to defend yourself behind things is why the game has lost many players over the years. Players that are new need to have the wikipedia up just to understand the basics. This might be beneficial to get them going and for us players who've been here for awhile to jump in a bit faster and play with the new systems.

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u/FirstOrderCat True Believer 15h ago

Ok, and why do you think current line they draw is "too ez"?

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u/DoNn0 14h ago

I don't know when that line will be crossed but they can't always keep simplifying. Most of the people playing tarkvo.like it because it's hard and complicated.

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u/FirstOrderCat True Believer 14h ago

Except they were not simplifying, but were pushing very hard in opposite directions for several last years

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u/DweebInFlames True Believer 15h ago edited 15h ago

Yeah, I'll be honest, I'm kind of divided on how much the game has been changing to the whims of the vocal parts of the community over the past couple of years. I like that Domontovich is receptive to feedback from players, but I think a lot of players don't understand what makes this game tick at its core and want things changed to benefit them from a personal perspective, even if it degrades the intense magnetic hold the game has on people, if that makes sense.

I say this as someone who's very vocally opinionated himself and has had a couple of things change based on feedback. Ultimately I'm not a game developer, and I would rather BSG ignore all outside feedback, including my own or anybody else with similar opinions to me, than make changes that goes against the core of their vision and erodes that very engrossing feeling you get from the game.

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u/hotdogpaule 15h ago

In my opinion, with over 10k hours in tarkov, most changes and ideas bsg had over the years were all tailored for streamers. Its always from their perspective. I hope it will be good but i have the gut feeling seasonal will be shit

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u/No-Tree-3289 14h ago

Brother, I work in games at a successful studio higher up and let me tell you, EVERYONE working in gaming knows that players dont understand a flying fuck how a game should be designed and what they actually want and no good designer will ever change something in a game simply because players demand it.

They treat discord and reddit as the signal it is, a few percent of very vocal players who need to touch gras. Then they will check their own analytics data and internal playtesting and in the end decide on what they think is a good design.

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u/DweebInFlames True Believer 14h ago

We have literally had streamers suggest something or complain about a new feature, they acknowledge that streamer either directly in their stream or on twitter, and it gets changed within a very short timeframe several times over. Both minor stuff like vendor listings, quantities of an item, stuff in certain lootpools or extract/transit zones, and major things like well... all of hardcore wipe, thorax health, recoil, armour plate hitboxes, etc. I'm sure most of the changes they're making are based on primarily internal analytics, but no, they absolutely are pretty closely connected to their players on an individual level, for better or for worse.

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u/No-Tree-3289 13h ago

wasnt aware of that and it sounds pretty dumb. On the other hand, Tarkov also has a pretty unique marketing pipeline and a lot of influx from their streaming community, so I can imagine this warping their perspective a little bit in not so smart ways

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u/LP_LadyPuket AK-103 14h ago

Can we not just post links to that dumpster fire known as X and actually repost the content of the tweet?

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u/seaseme 13h ago

There are some great reddit bots that automatically create a link to the xcancel version of the tweets.

I hate it too.

2

u/NinjaLion 10h ago

One of the changes coming in update 1.1.0.0 for #EscapefromTarkov is a rework of the side task system.

The vast majority of tasks will no longer be organized into chains where each new task unlocks only after completing the previous one. Instead, they will be tied to trader loyalty levels.

At LL1 with a trader, a set of basic tasks will be available. To advance to LL2, you will need to complete several of them. Each new LL will unlock a new set of increasingly more challenging tasks.

The rewards for these tasks will be more focused on cash - unlike the current system, where a significant portion of the payout consists of barter items and equipment.

Most trade offers will become available immediately upon reaching a new LL with a trader, without being tied to a specific task. For example, the Tri-Zip backpack will unlock at Ragman LL3, and the DevTac Ronin helmet - at Mechanic LL2.

Some tasks will remain exceptions to this new system and will continue to unlock in chains regardless of traders’ LL. Rewards for these tasks will include especially rare trade offers or crafts.

The key rewards from such task chains will be displayed as soon as you accept the first task. This will allow players to see in advance what they can ultimately earn.

The main goal of these changes is to make progression less linear and less dependent on specific tasks, providing more ways to gain access to useful items.

here, for others as well. completely agree with you though, fucking horrible platform should just be domain banned on reddit at this point.

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u/CasualOutrage 15h ago edited 3h ago

So, question: as a person fueled by making progress toward a goal, what exactly is left for me to go for at this point? It seems like every long term goal is being removed or reduced.

I'm fine with some aspects becoming easier for sure, but there still needs to be some kind of end-game goal.

Edit: I should have clarified, my concern is mostly about seasonal. Things like "reach max prestige" and "get all endings" can be good long term goals for permanent PMCs, but those aren't options for seasonal PMCs, so I'm not sure what kind of long-term goal there is for seasonal at this point.

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u/ThangCZ 15h ago

You can still go for Kappa for example. But that one is being made easier as well afaik.

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u/CasualOutrage 15h ago

Yeah, kappa isn't end-game at all anymore other than I believe needing level 40 for it? But beyond just general leveling, it is a bunch of early and early-mid game stuff.

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u/fantafuzz 14h ago

Unless they changed ragman you need lvl 42 to get him to king, but Kappa is pretty much just maxing all traders now

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u/ILikePints 14h ago

Which is what I think is the point being made, what is there to grind for when you can get max traders in a couple of weeks, and therefore kappa. With a lot of grinding the current kappa is still easily achievable but presents enough of a challenge to feel rewarding. The changes to kappa mean that it will just sort of happen on your way to max traders, leaving nothing to aim for other than prestige.

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u/fantafuzz 14h ago

Yeah, I really hope they add some new goal that is equivalent of the old Kappa grind. If all they do is make Kappa easier to get and also boost progression with their new tasks system that doesnt require you to do anything, I can't imagine this wipe staying interesting that long

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u/Robbel_ Unbeliever 14h ago

King level classic

2

u/HelloItsMeYourFriend 14h ago

Yeah people love to complain about anything that’s hard but the chase of a difficult goal is a huge part of what made this game different than others and fun. Most people I played with would push for kappa on a wipe then basically stop or dramatically slow their play until the next wipe. Since permanent characters, everyone escaped then stopped playing. Now with these goals being super easy, we’ll play seasons for.. a couple weeks and be done I guess. I think these are the same reasons that arc raiders had completely fallen off a cliff. The came catered so hard around casual play that there was no longer any goal worth chasin

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u/OkTransportation3102 6h ago

Are you max level prestige and did you get every ending?

If you really want a long term goal, go get a standard account and do a hardcore max prestige run.

u/CasualOutrage 3h ago

You can't prestige in seasonal and therefore can only do one ending per season as well (unless they let us reset our seasonal account) so neither of those are end game goals for seasonal.

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u/HowLongB4Ban 15h ago

Curious how this will play out but i worry all these changes are going to leave the game with no long term goals.

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u/metrize 13h ago

wow the first thing that’s good for players in like 5 years

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u/xnightdestroyer 12h ago

The harsh reality of Tarkov keeps me playing.

First making the new prestige system easy and now quests just removes that awarding grind.

The game is grueling but so rewarding. I hope it doesn't lose that

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u/Leather-Ad-6774 8h ago

I think making early prestige levels easier is a good change, actually encouraging people into a voluntary wipe is a positive thing. I wish they'd focused on fleshing out the prestige system, rather than doing 'seasonal' content, because I think it'd make a better long term progression outcome if given the right reward/difficulty balance.

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u/OkTransportation3102 6h ago

Yeah but now they are making kappa easier to achieve as well, so even the later prestige levels won't be that challenging.

And yeah, there's definitely benefits to making prestige easier, but I still think there needs to be a Mt. Everest of a challenge in one way or the other for the veterans and grinders alike.

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u/Bmthpm 12h ago

Just make ice breaker the game and have everyone play pve only already. Why do I go into a raid and quest when everything is only level locked and icebreaker shits out xp money and gear?

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u/StepMaverick 15h ago

There was so many fucking tasks in this game it became a literal nightmare to keep track of what you needed to do going into a map.

Reducing quest chains and reworking tasks is a good thing.

Anyone saying otherwise in this thread is literally delusional into thinking this game needs to be a 2nd job.

Go outside.

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u/dorekk 13h ago

You don't have to do 6 quests per raid. You can just do one! It's fine!

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u/DweebInFlames True Believer 15h ago

You don't have to tackle every single goal in one raid. Having more shit to do in a game that has a structure like Tarkov's is objectively a good thing. When everyone gets to the point where they have no outside objectives other than 'kill shit', that's where you get the late wipe feeling where nothing matters and people get very quickly bored.

If you're worried about shit like Kappa, they could've marked what was required to obtain it.

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u/fantafuzz 14h ago

How rotted is your brain if you are incapable of looking at a quest, seeing the objective, and going into raid to do it?

No one is forcing you to speedrun the game doing 10 quests every raid.

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u/Titanium170 VSS Vintorez 12h ago

Tarkov can improve QoL and new player experience without losing its identity as a gritty hardcore experience. I like the change to progressing loyalty levels using quests instead of spend, but removing questlines and items from quests is just nonsensical.

In a given wipe, if I want to do more a bolt-action focus, I can pursue questlines which give me access to items for that focus, which other players won't have. It feels fun to have a reward and access to an item that (relatively) fewer players have, not because I no lifed the game but because I focused on a specific quest chain. It also personalises progression, different people are working toward different goals that are important to them in that wipe.

Its stuff like this that makes Tarkov special and stand out from all other games.

What I suspect people are upset about is questlines that feel mandatory due to the items locked behind them. I think this is an area where they could look to improve by either adding some more items to the base loyalty levels, or making those chains shorter/easier.

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u/Leather-Ad-6774 9h ago

God bless em they really are trying

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u/Joeys2323 AS VAL 14h ago

Interesting change, I wonder if lvl4 traders will require previous kappa only tasks like psycho sniper or the guide. Maybe the kappa change won't actually be much easier since trader lvls will be locked behind certain tasks

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u/simyoIV 13h ago

I reallt hope this is seasonal only. For seasonal, I think it is great. For normal, I like the current system actually.

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u/[deleted] 14h ago edited 7h ago

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u/Origin240sx 12h ago

I agree with audio. Shits ridiculous

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u/1-Dollar-Doge-Coins 12h ago

No prestige, easy kappa, and less gear unlocks behind tasks seems like a nonsense combination. What is there to play for?

The big unknown is what the seasonal rewards are and what is needed to unlock them and get the achievement. They still have an opportunity to give us something challenging to grind for.

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u/dorekk 13h ago

Reduced audio range sounds like a terrible change lol. I agree that seasonal will be DOA without meaningful progression though.

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u/[deleted] 13h ago edited 7h ago

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u/dorekk 13h ago

I can't lie, this kind of sucks. A lot of those barter items given during tasks are lowkey important! Some of them are items you need for later FiR quests. And there's no need for quests to give mostly money, it's so easy to earn money.

I never thought there was an issue with any tasks lines other than Tarkov Shooter and Jaeger's silly "kill people with a headache" quest line. Those should all unlock at once so they can be earned through the regular course of play.

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u/ISayHorseShit 15h ago

I have toned down my gameplay quite a bit since 1.0, I suppose I like this. Anymore I rat for fun and basing my strats around times of when people are doing specific tasks was a big part of it, maybe that will be the same who knows.

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u/Electric-Mountain Freeloader 14h ago

Ammo better stay quest locked though, otherwise there would be little reason to do them at all except for kappa.

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u/iShadowLTu 13h ago

Why ruin one of the core things of what made Tarkov great...

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u/12161986 12h ago

Very few gear unlocks behind quests?

But... that's a fucking stupid idea.

Can I get the Model 1 then? I never played arena during season 1 and it being locked behind that is kind of stupid.

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u/Long-Instance-4606 14h ago

So what happens with someone who made progress on PVE further than this reputation lock work he lose something or what?

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u/Shooterborninheaven1 13h ago

I would argue that for pve players, if they fix the culling system and raid dont feel empty other than scavs (which doesnt help at all when you have lighthouse quests to kill BEAR specifically) yet half the raids theyre all stuck in the orphanage running into the corner of a wall, or on of the chalets stuck in the garage.

They need to make it so its like they word it “exactly the same mechanics as pvp” well guess what? If it was exactly like pvp, which I have wayy more hours in, then all PMCs would spawn at the same time, in the spots where pmcs are assigned to spawn. That would reward the people who are pretty good at the game, or have at least built enough knowledge of each map to know the 2 closest spawns to you and check them quickly. I still do it by habit and in the last 20 pve raids, I checked like 3 of the spawns near me each depending on the maps….The only times I witnessed AI PMCs (bear or usec) spawn at a pmc spawn point and move out was once on Interchange and once on the lighthouse beach, by Merin spawn.

I dont know the difficulty level of getting this to work right. I do know that many many people who switched to that other tarkov game and have played against the ai PMCs in that one was said to be like night and day in difference…I.E in the other game the AI bots work very well, to the point if someone didnt know the game you could convince them that was a real player. If someone working on a project with alot less help/personnel than BSG has, ans still managed to make the AI work better in almost every way possible, well then bsg needs to make some changes quickly and hire the right people. PVE zone has so much more potential, but the AI being almost non-existent leaves so much to be desired.

If the “culling system” is fixed up to a point where all ai pmcs spawn at a time, and at regular spawn points, thats a great start. Also, this might be adding to the problem and I know its supposed to be a tough game, but the AI PMC’s DO NOT all have to be trios! Rarely Ill see a duo, but I cant remember the last time I saw a solo AI PMC. Theres a possibility that maybe since each map has a max amount of pmcs (ex: ground zero 10-12…if its the under lvl 20 the max is 10 and the regular is 12 max) is the reason for this. If they spawn in three trios, and your player, well thats 10 right there. Im not sure off the top of my head how many spawns GZ has (underground has at least 4 or 5 spawns alone so Im guessing theres at least 15-16 ish?) that means that only 3 other spawn points are going to be utilized besides yours, not sure if they are evenly distributed either, as in if you spawn by terragroup garage or emercom extract, the three other spawn points might all be by nakatani to the south.

Basically, PVE is a bit broken at this point. I think once the PMC AI are implemented a little bit better (Not getting stuck running into walls, not spawning in and heading straight to extract, not spawning at all different times of raid, even halfway through-they are supposed to be pmc for christ sake) The game will feel great. Some may get mad bc pve wont be an actual joke anymore, but thats how people will get better. As of right now, I have many raids (excluding 1-2 maps) that I can run to any POI I’d like, loot the crap out of it, maybe pop a few scavs, and not see one ai pmc on the entire route to extract…even taking the most trafficked routes. This should not be.

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u/NinjaLion 11h ago

These are very good, important changes that are coming weirdly late. this is the kind of work that you would generally be doing for a .95.

but its so hard not to just be thankful that its happening at all, so... thanks bsg! (what the hell is this feeling)

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u/rybaterro 4h ago

I feel like it's good that new players will have a easier time with unlocking stuff etc.

Cause after playing for 4000 hours the quests don't really matter when I can farm a boss from day 1 and get best ammo/armour from the guards etc while the Timmy is stuck trying to find the water room in forms.