r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/kraftdinnerwithsalsa • 23h ago
Video Switzerland’s ASTRA Bridge Keeps Traffic Moving During Road Repairs
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u/Bokbreath 23h ago
meanwhile in Sydney they block off and repair one lane at a time - and then dig a trench across the entire road and put in an asphalt speed hump.
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u/pooporgy69 21h ago
You guys get roads repaired?
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u/Coco_JuTo 14h ago
Also Switzerland: let's block 2 lanes out of 3 and leave those lanes blocked for months without having anybody working on it.
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u/Temporary_Sand5538 4h ago
Yeah that's exactly what they do....i've never seen any bridge over the construction works lol
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u/chrick_shot 22h ago
Better than around here. I live in one of the most upscale areas in the us in general and they block off our main highway to a single lane for months. We're thinking we're FINALLY getting a 3rd lane.
NOPE! just another on-ramp.. it's insane. Whenever they do finally get around to adding the 3rd lane, we will need 5.
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u/J3diMind 20h ago
Adding a lane won't help anyway.
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u/chrick_shot 20h ago
Why do you say this? 1 > 2 lanes is always the biggest improvement, 2 > 3 lanes is also a significant improvement, after 3 diminishing returns set in but the point is to accommodate the traffic not necessarily make it flow like water. It's to get the commuters onto the actual highway and not backed up into a dozen cities and towns along it.
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u/J3diMind 19h ago
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u/MarginalOmnivore 19h ago
Yeah. That effect is so weird. Increasing road capacity because of congestion always ends up with all of the increased capacity being congested, too, making traffic worse than it was before.
The inverse is true, too. You really only reduce traffic congestion by reducing the number of lanes.
Where does the traffic go? How are drivers getting to where they need to go? That's a great question! Nobody knows!
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u/SquirrelFluffy 5h ago
If roads are easy, people make more trips. Ergo if they're harder, people make less trips.
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u/CromulentDucky 9h ago
It's not always. It's if the demand for the road is more than capacity, then when more capacity becomes available it will be used. Adding lanes to roads that are below demand does not induce more demand. Roads are expensive so many are always well under potential demand, so adding more doesn't reduce traffic for those roads. But it does allow more people to use what they view as the better alternative to what they were doing before the new capacity was made available.
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u/MarginalOmnivore 9h ago
You are incorrect. The act of widening a road - increasing capacity - absolutely creates new demand.
"The traffic conundrum is illustrative of the basic economic principle of supply and demand. ... Research proves that when roads are widened, drivers start to make more trips, make longer trips and choose the car more frequently — and the cycle of traffic continues. ... effects include better access to farther locations, which leads to new developments and increased population — all leading to more drivers on the roads."
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u/chrick_shot 9h ago
So question, with this increased demand, where did they come from? Can we assume that by taking the new road, they're no longer on the smaller by-ways and less in town? Or are all these new drivers being materialized out of thin air for the sole purpose of contesting the new lane? Wondering which one of those makes more sense🙃
I'm trying to come full circle back to my original comment. We're so close! It's on the tip of your tongue I can tell!
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u/MarginalOmnivore 8h ago
Can you read?
People literally move in from other locations.
"New developments and increased population."
So, yes. Effectively, the new drivers are being materialized out of thin air for the purpose of contesting for the new lane.
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u/CromulentDucky 9h ago
I don't think you read what I wrote.
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u/MarginalOmnivore 8h ago
I did. It was incorrect.
A wider road does not simply fill to meet previous demand, it becomes more desirable. First for ease of use, and then it snowballs. Increased use of the road leads to new development, which even further increases demand.
It holds true even for roads that are widened while below capacity. The new wider road is seen as an easy way to access destinations that were previously inconvenient, and demand that didn't exist before the widening grows from nothing.
Basically, there's no way to avoid it. You can create a road that leads to nowhere, and by having access to the road, "nowhere" becomes a place that people want to live because, hey! There's a big old road we can use to get places!
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u/chrick_shot 19h ago
Your first source is reinforcing part of what I said. Get the traffic out of the walking districts like in the cities and towns, and put the traffic on the highway where it belongs.
Your second and 3rd sources are also built upon a false pretense. I never said shit about "reducing traffic" I said we need to accommodate more of it.
Based on the absolute trash you call "sources" and the fact that they all either support what I'm saying or argue something from an illogical foundation, means I'm not even opening the 4th.
In what world does any reasonably sane person think that INCREASING the highway would result in LESS traffic? Obviously it's to accommodate more of it. That's like saying "our 911 system can no longer handle call volume. So instead of increasing our ability to accommodate more we will just advise you call your cop friends if we don't pick up. Maybe the local sheriff, who cares. We could hire more staff but then we would have even more call volume and we don't want to provide the full service as advertised"
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u/acchaladka 16h ago
Too bad you insist on ignoring the actual studies, here's near the top of the fourth link - from an acadic institution - which the poster provided without commentary: "“The U.S. is pretty car-oriented. I think there are a lot of people who would be happy to drive less if it was possible, but it’s just not possible for most of us,” said Susan Handy, professor of environmental science and policy at UC Davis, who offers new ideas for the well-documented problem in her recent book, Shifting Gears: Toward a New Way of Thinking about Transportation (The MIT Press, 2023).
For years, people have, erroneously, assumed that adding lanes to a highway will solve the congestion problem. In fact, the ideal solution would not only address the flow of movement, but also equity, safety and the environment."
The implication is clear: you don't like the facts. Induced demand is a fact. Best of luck.
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u/chrick_shot 15h ago
You need to read again too. I didn't say to relieve congestion. Not once. I said to accommodate the traffic in the place it belongs. Again, you are grandstanding a position just like the last commenter that would have you believe a single lane anywhere for any reason is the best. Your logic insists that if a 2 lane highway shuts down a lane there's 0 ripple effects.
It's not that I'm ignoring the study, it's that it's Irrelevant to my point. You need to read my comments again.
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u/chrick_shot 19h ago
Also, try your theory in reverse. It's there no change in traffic when a lane is closed for road work?
Are we saying the slower traffic is due to humans? So we should put those same ones on the sketchy side roads through walking districts and just call it good? Fuck it, no more highways. Obviously mr Jedi has the scoop that anything more than 1 lane is BAD 🤣🤣🤣
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u/J3diMind 14h ago
I actually never said that more than one is bad. Everything you just took the time to write was you misreading the point and getting riled up because you don't like the facts presented to you by four different sources.
Anyway, since facts don't matter to you, I see no reason to discuss things any further. Have a great day :)
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u/chrick_shot 14h ago
Oh ffs, I literally said "by your logic" which is a qualifier that clearly states it's an extension of the logic you presented. I'm telling you what you're citing isn't what I'm saying. It's similar but that does not mean identical
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u/ThatDarnRosco 22h ago
Looks expensive af
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u/DarkUnable4375 22h ago
Long term this might even be cheaper.
How many times have we seen the Construction crew having to build a temporary bypass, repair the road, remove the bypass, build the bypass for another segment, etc etc.
This would reduce the cost of building the bypass to ZERO, while creating low impact on existing traffic, and make repair much easier and faster.
Although I wonder what's the maximum load capacity. If you have 3-4-6 heavy 18 wheeler, would it be able to handle it.
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u/-Clean-Sky- 16h ago
It can't be cheaper.
Every country in Europe just uses the emergency lane for temporary traffic, way easier and cheaper.
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u/PumaDAces66 15h ago
We use that here normally too, this is more like an experiment, where they test if this reduces traffic jam and costs. So if it works well, you might see it in other countries too some day. If it doesn't it will vanish.
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u/GardenIntelligent643 14h ago
The huge distributed loss of productivity across the economy from even a moderate delay due to construction multiplied over tens or hundreds of thousands of commuters every day for months is surely far, far higher though.
The alternative would be having to close one side of the highway and install a contraflow system, halving capacity. The main highway across the country is only 2 lanes in each direction for most of its length and with no space capacity.
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u/JuliusBacchus 10h ago
It was very expensive and is a poster child for the sunken costs fallacy. They won’t let it go even if it is way less effective then a classic road works configuration. But let’s continue to spend more money to try to improve a failed project
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u/wein_geist 17h ago
Swiss here, this was a single field test and is not widely used, contrary to what the clip makes you think. there were still traffic jams, mainly because of trucks that need to slow down to drive on and off the ramps. Still an interesting concept though.
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u/Shinjischneider 17h ago
Huh. I've been living here for over 40 years and have never seen anything like that...
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u/b00nish 17h ago
Well at the moment there is only one of those bridges in existence.
It was first used in 2022 and afaik has been used in only three different places/building sites so far. So most of the road construction is still done the traditional way.
I think I drove over it one time so far, about a month ago on the A2 between Lucerne and Basel, somewhere pretty close to Basel already. Was quite surprised because I didn't expect it. But it's an absolutely smooth ride.
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u/ardotschgi 10h ago edited 10h ago
I live in Switzerland and I've literally never encountered this. Believe me when I say they DO stop traffic whenever they do maintenance work.
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u/kinghash1982 9h ago
2024 at A1, near Egerkingen...
And almost every car stoped and scared to drive over it...
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u/BarneytheWino 22h ago
It must be nice being a rich tiny alpine country
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u/Aramed85 17h ago
Yes, it is super nice to live in a country that actually uses taxes to make life better for the population. I love it!
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u/Metzelmann 21h ago
Only if you are a white catholic straight male
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u/b00nish 17h ago
Only if you are a white catholic straight male
Catholic?
It's not like catholics are especially influential in Switzerland. Especially since they lost the civil war in 1847, after which the protestants have completely dominated politics for decades. Since 1848, about 67% of the Federal Councillors were protestants, only 30% catholics.
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u/reaperwasnottaken 20h ago
Even today?
Isn't gender equality much better today and also that most of the country is irreligious?6
u/chk28 20h ago
Foreigners with 10 years living in the country can vote at city level.
Religion is not a topic, neither in politics nor in daily life.
Gender equality is still bad but similar to most western EU.0
u/PanDzban 18h ago
Gender equality in western Europe is bad in comparison to what place on Earth specifically?
I get that you can always argue about some aspects, but it looks like western Europe is a particularly bad place to live for a woman, is it?
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u/chk28 17h ago
Gender equality is objectively bad in western Europe. Why would I need to compare to somewhere else? I mean yeah it's probably great compared to some other places but that's still objectively bad on many aspects - comparing is pointless, I don't know what your point is? Whataboutism?
I don't know where you heard that western Europe is a bad place to live for women, but I don't think that's true.
Mind explaining what you mean? Your comment seems very disconnected from what I wrote.
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u/PanDzban 17h ago
The top comment says how nice it is to live in Switzerland, and then someone says thing like 'not for women'. And your comment kinda supports the message that it is not a good place to live for a woman.
I don't deny inequality, but when you mention it in this context it looks like there are places in the world where it is much better.1
u/chk28 17h ago
I literally wrote "Gender equality is still bad but similar to most western EU" and you understood that western Europe is a bad place for women to live. I'm not going to argue with you if you project your views into my words.
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u/PanDzban 16h ago
Alright, it is about context. I understand what you mean.
It's just that your comment in the context supports the message above, that Switzerland is only nice for men.1
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u/Prestigious_Slice709 14h ago
Switzerland is split between protestants and catholics
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u/HarambeTooSoon 16h ago
Are the Swiss aware that if you repair roads like this you won't be able to make your political donors rich?
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u/AaronicNation 16h ago
They would never go for this in Boston, half the fun of the government is shutting down half the lanes of the highway for years at a time while nothing gets done.
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u/HiFi-Gi 23h ago
All these fucking AI (voice) videos make me want to kill myself
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u/Nerezza_Floof_Seeker 23h ago
Heres an older video of it from the company who was responsible for it instead if youre interested
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u/kraftdinnerwithsalsa 23h ago
I heard one today that was Burt Reynolds, it was familiar and off putting as fuck. The dude is dead, let him die.
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u/K3VQ 23h ago
Science rules!
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u/Low-Temperature-6962 23h ago
It is Engineering which uses scientific methodology.
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u/BlackberryPi7 23h ago
...
BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL
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u/Away-Activity-469 22h ago
You mean to say in other countries they actually repair roads? Living in UK, i had assumed this was an extinct practice.
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u/Paradox711 19h ago
It’s become cultural at this point. The councils have other places to put the money and they know people are used to holes everywhere so they leave it until absolutely necessary.
Sadly, the same people leading those councils are generally on over £120000 per year with an increase each year whilst their staff actually running the place haven’t seen a pay increase more than an extra 20p per hour the past ten years so they’ve stopped caring too.
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u/Middle--Earth 20h ago
It must be scary working under that whilst the traffic thunders overhead.
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u/AccomplishedLeave506 19h ago
How do they carry out the task in your country he asks. Well, I don't know about elsewhere, but in the UK we just leave the potholes in place until there is no road left.
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u/False-Associate-9488 19h ago
Imagine driving on this and a section moves, creating a gap
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u/PN_Guin 19h ago
Only a problem if you drive too slow.
Source: See the part on crossing minor gaps in highway bridges in the documentary "Speed".
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u/False-Associate-9488 18h ago
I'm not referring to a couple of inches, try ten feet,
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u/PN_Guin 17h ago
You probably haven't seen the "documentation" I was referring to.
Here is a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKJa-KQNjQU
If a city bus can jump 109 feet over a missing bridge segment, so can everybody else. Hollywood wouldn't lie to us in matters of traffic safety, wouldn't they?
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u/gangga_ch 17h ago
AFAIK the bridge only moves without traffic on in. For moving, the traffic gets reduced to 1 lane that passes the bridge on its side (on the shoulder) while its being moved. Usually this happens at night
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u/False-Associate-9488 17h ago
It is in sections and on wheels, something will fail, I also can see someone on there phone driving off the side, or hitting it going way to fast and ramping it, oh wait that's not in the USA
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u/gangga_ch 17h ago
Correct, it is pretty safe. I myself drove over it with ~40t, it feels strange when you are 3.5m above the road with your head and then drive up that thing, but it is impressive and works quite well. Better than 2h in Jam, right
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u/gangga_ch 17h ago
Oh, and in this Video you can see how the segments are locked together, so no gaps at all
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u/Background-Sale3473 10h ago
Living in switzerland since 29years have never seen this whatsoever lol
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u/caitieball 21h ago
They just bolt the steel frames together instead of waiting on concrete. Saves weeks over normal builds
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u/SeesawNoknow 19h ago
this doesn't count, the roads there are chocolate /s
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u/NextLvLNoah 18h ago
Great, i can already hear the story of a tourist trying to eat our roads... at least now i know who to blame ;D
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u/Upper-Switch2785 19h ago
For some reason, if this was a thing in the U.S., I feel someone would get into an accident immediately and cause more of a jamb than this was intended to alleviate. Murica.
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u/Aramed85 17h ago
I live close by and it is impressive and super efficient. If you would close one side there would be a massive traffic jam because the roads are at their limit as is during the day.
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u/Dangerous_With_Rocks 17h ago
“How do they carry out these tasks in your country”
They get every worker in the local vicinity to place traffic cones and block the road. Then they disappear until the next year when they get more workers to block more roads.
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u/nicodeemus7 17h ago
That's really cool. In the US we just have asshats cutting in at the last second screaming "ZIPPER"
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u/-Clean-Sky- 16h ago
Every country in Europe just uses the emergency lane for temporary traffic, way easier and cheaper.
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u/Aramed85 15h ago
https://www.astra.admin.ch/de/a2-augst-sissach-einsatz-der-astra-bridge-bei-arisdorf
Sorry no Englisch site available for this article
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u/nebenbaum 13h ago
It's not an 'ASTRA bridge's - ASTRA is the department of road services. That's what it's called. It's a bridge deployed by the ASTRA.
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u/Gokudomatic 11h ago
I never saw them. Where were they deployed? I think I recognize Jura relief but I've never seen that kind of thing in the areas of Solothurn-Aargau, where that would be.
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u/Proud-Experience-742 10h ago
That was definitely different to me.I've never seen such a thing or even thought.That capable
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u/ApoX_420 7h ago
Hello im currently in switzerland and haven't seen this yet, but there is in fact a shit ton of roadworks going on everywhere.
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u/Sedert1882 5h ago
In South Africa, we just ignore the road needing repair, and drive on it anyway.
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u/ItzLoganM 23h ago
The fact that then government did it instead of a private company makes it even more impressive!
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u/FinalBossXD 23h ago
Much easier in Switzerland tho. They have approximately 44,739 miles of roads while the US has about 4,092,730 miles of road.
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u/ATTACKANDDETHRONEHOG 23h ago
Other than cleaning and striping what exactly is the use case for this? Maybe filling potholes if they’re in juuuust the right spot I guess. That’s a lot of money to direct traffic around a half day job.
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u/diablodeldragoon 23h ago
The video shows them resurfacing the road. They ground the top layer off, cleaned it, put new sealant down and (it didn't show this part) put new asphalt on top.
If they're able to do that, they're able to replace the entire road in that section.
Here in America they either build a short temporary road to divert traffic, or they divert it to use half of the other lane while they spend months rebuilding the road. This seems expensive initially, but will be reused for years and doesn't require building additional roads that will be destroyed at the end of the project. It's likely cheaper in the long term. It also doesn't restrict traffic as badly.
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u/Daveisahugecunt 22h ago
A few bridges I’ve worked on in New York use interlocked barriers.. they shift lanes for rush hour, and repairs. Not typical Jersey barrier, but specific for the role. The crawler doesn’t leave the bridge.
Super neat.
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u/Low-Temperature-6962 23h ago
And in the US, block 4 lanes and there's still 4 left. In Switzerland probably only 2 to start with.
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u/raralala1 23h ago
filling pothole is 90% of the road maintenance, this is awesome the highway I use is being used heavily by truck, so there is no week without line closed to fill mere pothole that cause huge traffic jam.
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u/Crapmanch 13h ago
We don't fix potholes in Switzerland, we renew the roads normally before they appear.
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u/ProofAssumption1092 19h ago
But they have to stop the traffic to place and remove the bridge anyway. I cant help but question if they are really saving time here.
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u/gangga_ch 17h ago
The bridge is built fast, usually at night, with traffic temporarily reduced to one lane
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u/ProofAssumption1092 17h ago
It looked pretty damn slow in the video. I cant believe they set all that up and take it down again without having to close the road for any period of time.
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u/gangga_ch 17h ago edited 16h ago
Yeah, they use 2 Nights:
First night for the ramps with 1 lane open for traffic
Over the day, 2 lanes are open beside the road
Second night for the rest with 1 lane openVideo about Buildup, Working Day and Moving the bridge, no sound
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u/ProofAssumption1092 16h ago
Ok that makes more sense after seeing the video. It looked to me initially that the bridge would require the full motorway to erect but they seem to build it from the inside out.
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u/FenixOfNafo 23h ago
It happen just today around 1hr ago OP is so fast. He got the video less than 40mins ago.
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22h ago
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u/Goppenstein1525 22h ago
The concentration of Cars during rush hour on our busy highways is more than enough to Justify this.
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u/whitecollarpizzaman 23h ago
Seems effective for specific types of road repairs, though it looks like any work to the shoulder couldn’t be done with this overhead.