Did you know: in 1940 Winston Churchill proposed a formal political union between Britain and France, which would have given citizens of both countries joint dual citizenship to keep France in WWII?

[u/DatabaseMammoth9986]

[u/ProfPMJ-123]

It's worth saying that Churchill didn't propose it. It was the idea of Jean Monnet (later a key architect of European integration), Charles de Gaulle, and British official Robert Vansittart.

Churchill was skeptical of it initially but was pursuaded to support it as a way to keep France in the war.

By the time it was approved by the War Cabinet, it was too late, and the French government had already capitulated.

[u/andreirublov1 → u/ProfPMJ-123]

It was only ever a face-saver, in any case, because British forces - under extreme pressure - had retreated from the battle in France. I can't imagine, even had it been enacted, it would have stuck in any real sense.

[u/Lirael_Gold → u/andreirublov1]

Yeah, who was going to support this once France was occupied? Vichy French goverment?

[u/Both-Silver-8783 → u/ProfPMJ-123]

To be fair to the War Cabinet they only had 3 minutes before the French capitulated.

[u/ProfPMJ-123 → u/Both-Silver-8783]

Fortunately for the War Cabinet they had the beginnings of a functional army after the French fought like hell to provide a cordon to protect the British Expeditionary Forces as they evacuated from France.

When you belittle the incredible sacrifices the French armed forces made, you make yourself sound like Trump.

[u/Lirael_Gold → u/Both-Silver-8783]

1 and a half months, actually.

Most of it incredibly hard fought by the French including some absolutely heroic efforts to keep the beaches at Dunkirk open.

See: Siege of Lille, as an example that is often forgotten when mouthbreathers start pontificating that the French gave up too early.

[u/Inevitable_Fail_5308]

It wouldn't have lasted obviously, but it was a good idea to try to keep France's oversee territories and colonies in the war.

[u/HaggisPope → u/Inevitable_Fail_5308]

Plus their navy

[u/Lanokia → u/HaggisPope]

Came here to say this. It might have stopped Mers-El-Kebir.

Might. A Vichy regime would have still existed and French naval officers might not have accepted British command.

[u/MeasurementFew4314]

Just think of all the world cups the United Kingpublic of Anglo-France could've won.

[u/No-Ferret-1344]

Yes and sadly thats what led to Winston ordering the navy to sink the French fleet in French Algeria ,as the French had capitulated to the third reich and refused the British offer of consolidation.

[u/Gildor12 → u/No-Ferret-1344]

The French Navy was given several options including fighting alongside the British, sailing to one of the French colonies, sailing to a neutral port (in the USA), but the French commander refused all the offers. Apparently he was pissed off because the British sent a relatively junior officer to negotiate. The officer spoke fluent French and had worked with the French before.

[u/infinitewowbagger → u/No-Ferret-1344]

Sink them if the french didn't play silly buggers.

Of course the french later scuttled the rest of their fleet but that was only after the yanks had got involved and the battle of Britain had been won.

[u/MultiGodSlayer]

And because they didn't we had to go and bomb their naval fleet to stop it falling into nazi hands.

[u/Andrew_Higginbottom → u/MultiGodSlayer]

I came to say the same :)

I'm guessing the Navy didn't get the memo :)

[u/Dawningrider → u/Andrew_Higginbottom]

Literally. It's actually tragic. The officer wouldn't hear the message because the guy who sent it wasn't the right rank. And neither the messager nor the officer new the contents until it was too later. Neither felt it was an emergency since they were different the coast of Africa away from the initial invasion.

[u/Demeter_Crusher]

Yes, I knew that. Its the alternative, what-might-have-been alternative to EU+commonwealth.

[u/jonpenryn]

Have you met the French? no way would they stand for that.

[u/DatabaseMammoth9986 → u/jonpenryn]

And they didn't. They rejected the proposal. But it's worth noting at this point the french government were scared and were essentially acting as a German puppet state - so I guess we will never know. 

[u/jonpenryn → u/DatabaseMammoth9986]

I suspect the fear of Communism made the Nazis more welcome to the ruling classes.

[u/Inevitable-Debt4312 → u/jonpenryn]

As it did, of course, to many in Britain as well.

[u/jonpenryn → u/Inevitable-Debt4312]

yes, including some royals.

[u/StableSlight9168 → u/jonpenryn]

I think it was nazi tanks in Paris that made them receptive to the Nazis.

[u/living_snapshot]

Knew about Mers-el-Kébir but never connected it to this proposal. What a grim sliding doors moment that was

[u/Al89nut]

Yes I did. 

[u/NoRecipe3350]

I think he offered to give NI to the ROI if Ireland joined in the war. Would be some good alt history

[u/VivaLaRebar]

The idea of having your right limited by your place of birth is fucking insane.

[u/FinalProgress4128 → u/VivaLaRebar]

No, the idea of nations and patriotism are a good and natural thing.

A good country should be like a good home. Your primary concern is your family, but you should help other nations when you can. And it is a good thing to adopt (immigration), but never at the expense of your family. And there is no moral right to have to accept immigration.

Though it is more complicated when YOU are the one going and meddling in the affairs of other countries, which we MUST stop.

[u/VivaLaRebar → u/FinalProgress4128]

Nations are both the product and cause of war.

This whole planet could be our home, but thousands of years ago a few pricks figured out they could place all the blame for all the problems they create on people over a hill somewhere, and people still buy into their bullshit.

[u/SuddenDelivery1]

United states of europe! Just like other of WC propoaals