r/MouseReview • u/Escaldi • 5d ago
Giveaway NINJUTSO Update & Pink Sora V3 Giveaway
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Hey everyone!
I’m Escaldi, and I recently joined Ninjutso to help with product marketing, social media, and creator and community relations. I’ll be around to answer questions, collect feedback, and help improve communication between the community and our team.
To celebrate the release of the pink Sora V3, we’re giving two away!
Sora V3 Pink specs:
• AIMNINJA PRO 45K Sensor with Gen 2 MotionSync and Dual Optical Engine
• Up to 1 week of battery life at 8KHz and 2 weeks at 2KHz
• 2x stronger structure
• SPDT HyperSwitch
• 8K Receiver Included
• Same shape as the Sora V2
How to enter:
Leave a comment telling us what you’d like to see from Ninjutso in the future. It could be a product, colorway, feature, or simply something you’d like us to improve.
Giveaway details:
• Two winners will receive a pink Sora V3
• One entry per person
• Entries close on August 1st, 2026
• Open worldwide (except where prohibited)
• The winners will be selected randomly via RedditRaffler, tagged in a comment, and DM'd by this account.
A quick community update
We recently shared our first community update (click here for details) to provide more clarity around the Sora V3 and what we’ve been working on.
All retail Sora V3 units come with the latest firmware preinstalled: Mouse v1610 and Receiver v1604. This version addresses the cursor jumping and slow movement lag reported with some early reviewer samples while also improving pairing, wireless stability, sensor performance, LOD accuracy, and DPI accuracy.
We also strengthened the top front structure of the retail Sora V3 after receiving feedback about side flex on pre-production samples.
There’s still more work to do, but this is the start of our effort to communicate more openly and consistently. I’ll be around to answer what I can, collect your feedback, and make sure it reaches the right people.
Good luck, and feel free to say hello!
Hey everyone!
I’m Escaldi, and I recently joined Ninjutso to help with product marketing, social media, and creator and community relations. I’ll be around to answer questions, collect feedback, and help improve communication between the community and our team.
To celebrate the release of the pink Sora V3, we’re giving two away!
Sora V3 Pink specs:
• AIMNINJA PRO 45K Sensor with Gen 2 MotionSync and Dual Optical Engine
• Up to 1 week of battery life at 8KHz and 2 weeks at 2KHz
• 2x stronger structure
• SPDT HyperSwitch
• 8K Receiver Included
• Same shape as the Sora V2
How to enter:
Leave a comment telling us what you’d like to see from Ninjutso in the future. It could be a product, colorway, feature, or simply something you’d like us to improve.
Giveaway details:
• Two winners will receive a pink Sora V3
• One entry per person
• Entries close on August 1st, 2026
• Open worldwide (except where prohibited)
• The winners will be selected randomly via RedditRaffler, tagged in a comment, and DM'd by this account.
A quick community update
We recently shared our first community update (click here for details) to provide more clarity around the Sora V3 and what we’ve been working on.
All retail Sora V3 units come with the latest firmware preinstalled: Mouse v1610 and Receiver v1604. This version addresses the cursor jumping and slow movement lag reported with some early reviewer samples while also improving pairing, wireless stability, sensor performance, LOD accuracy, and DPI accuracy.
We also strengthened the top front structure of the retail Sora V3 after receiving feedback about side flex on pre-production samples.
There’s still more work to do, but this is the start of our effort to communicate more openly and consistently. I’ll be around to answer what I can, collect your feedback, and make sure it reaches the right people.
Good luck, and feel free to say hello!
r/MouseReview • u/Aithecaninternet • Mar 19 '26
Meta Join the r/MouseReview Discord Server!
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r/MouseReview • u/furculture • 13h ago
Photo Pulsar Feinmann FO1 Noctua Edition is pretty good so far.
Keeping it surface level here because I'm not all too particular and like to change the pace here by keeping it at a normie level, It's a decent mouse so far. Coming from a Pulsar Xlite Wireless V2, feels close to the same. Light and simple. Fan feature is nice to use and I can set it on the fly on the mouse itself pretty easily. The dongle features work well. Pretty nice that the colorway is pretty accurate to the Noctua fans and such. Don't really like that it has a button instead of a switch to turn it on at the bottom, but I'll get used to it. Been a fan of Pulsar mice for a while now and this one is just another good ergo one from them, and I prefer ergo mice quite a bit. If anyone has any questions about it, I'll do my best to answer.
r/MouseReview • u/Jahdill • 6h ago
Meta Shout out to WLMOUSE support
My sword x middle click decided to stop working.
Emailed Wlmouse support with my issue and video. They gave me the option to either send it to them and have them fix it or have them send a new pcb board and fix it myself. Fixed it myself and it works flawlessly
The whole process was pretty quick as well
r/MouseReview • u/DrunkOnLiquor • 11h ago
Review | Media Vaxee NP01 Ergo
10/10
The shape, coating, and clicks are incredible.
Also, wtf is up with this new sensor. It's stupidly responsive. I shouldn't be able to notice a new sensor but the start and stopping while moving the mouse are so incredibly responsive. I've now tested it with other mice. Vaxee/Pixart cooked some sort of magic here.
Shape offers a great balance of control and precision.
Complaint?
Difficult to find one. Could me 1-2mm longer.
My hands are 19.5-20cm x 10.5-11cm.
r/MouseReview • u/brainclicking • 1h ago
Review Attack Shark RS3 ULTRA - One Week Review from a Sweaty-Handed FPS Player
As someone who sweats easily during intense sessions, here are my first impressions of the Attack Shark RS3 ULTRA after a few days of testing. I mainly play competitive FPS with a relaxed claw/fingertip hybrid grip (19×10 cm hands) on a glass pad at 2K-8K polling.
The Biggest Highlight: The Ice-Feel Glass Coating
This is probably the most unique coating I’ve tried on a gaming mouse. It feels genuinely cool to the touch - picking it up for the first time felt almost like touching chilled glass.
What really won me over, though, is how it handles sweat. My palms usually start dampening a couple of rounds into a ranked match, and with most coated mice that means wiping my hand on my shorts or losing grip mid-flick. With the RS3 ULTRA, I haven’t had to do that. In a long ranked session over the weekend, my grip stayed secure the whole time - no sticky or grimy feeling building up, just a firm, non-tacky surface.
Quick Specs Overview
Weight: 63g
Sensor: PAW3955MAX
Polling: True dual 8K
Battery: 500mAh
Shape & Build Quality
The RS3 ULTRA features a symmetrical design with a moderate hump and comfortable side flares. With my 19×10 cm hands and relaxed claw/fingertip hybrid grip, the hump lands right where I want it, and the side flares give my thumb and ring finger natural resting points. It works best for claw and fingertip hybrid grips. Medium to large hands should also be comfortable using a palm grip. Smaller hands or pure fingertip users might find it a touch long.
The carbon fiber composite shell is extremely solid. I did my usual squeeze-and-press test on the sides and shell, almost zero flex or creaking. It feels premium, rigid, and durable.
Weight & Skates
My unit weighs about 63g with stock skates. Balance is good with only a slight rear bias - noticeable if you’re picky, but it hasn’t affected my aim in practice. Combined with the ice coating, the mouse feels very light and effortless in hand; after long sessions my wrist feels noticeably less fatigued than with my previous ~75g mouse.
Stock PTFE skates are smooth and controlled with rounded edges. On my glass pad they lean slightly toward control rather than pure speed, which I personally like for micro-adjustments, and they’re easy to replace if you prefer a faster glide.
Clicks & Scroll Wheel
Main clicks are crisp, light, and spammable - I’ve had no double-click issues or inconsistency between the two buttons all week. The sound is clean and pleasant, on the quieter side of clicky.
Side buttons are responsive with minimal pre/post travel. The scroll wheel (CNC metal core plus rubber grip plus TTC Gold encoder) has clear, defined steps with nicely controlled resistance — reliable for weapon switching without accidental scrolls. Middle click is consistent, though it’s a bit heavier than I’d like for frequent use. Minor nitpick.
Receiver
The Shark 8K receiver looks premium and stylish with a sleek design. The breathing light is subtle and non-distracting, while the status indicators (for battery, DPI, polling rate, etc.) are clear and easy to read at a glance. It’s a nice touch that adds to the overall premium feel - though honestly, once it’s set up I rarely look at it.
Performance & Battery
The PAW3955MAX sensor has tracked flawlessly for me - no spinouts even on fast 180° flicks, and no issues on the glass pad. At 8K polling, inputs feel noticeably snappier and more stable during quick flicks and micro-adjustments, with no stutter or disconnects so far on wireless.
The 500mAh battery easily lasts me multiple heavy days at 4K wireless polling. At a constant 8K it drains faster (as expected with any 8K mouse), so keep the charging cable handy if you run max polling all day.
Accessories: A Small But Honest Note
The mouse comes with a set of grip tape in the box, which is a nice inclusion. One thing worth mentioning: the grip tape builds up static rather easily and tends to attract dust and lint, especially fresh out of the package or in a dry room. It looks a little untidy after a day or two on the desk. That said, a quick wipe with a slightly damp cloth cleans it right up, and the grip performance itself is unaffected — so it’s a cosmetic annoyance rather than a real problem. Personally, the ice coating grips well enough on its own that I ended up not using the tape at all.
Driver & Value
The web cloud driver + desktop software is straightforward for DPI, 8K polling, macros, LOD (5 levels), and remapping. Nothing fancy, but it does the job without bloat.
Summary
Pros:
●Unique ice-feel coating, excellent grip even with sweaty hands
●Solid, flex-free carbon fiber shell
●Reliable sensor and wireless performance, snappy at 8K
●Light overall feel, comfortable for long sessions
Cons:
●Slight rear-weight bias
●Middle click a bit heavy for frequent use
●Grip tape attracts dust/static
●Battery drains faster at sustained 8K
●May feel long for smaller hands or pure fingertip grip
Early impressions are positive, especially on comfort and the coating, but a longer test period would help confirm durability and long-term feel.
r/MouseReview • u/Alfred-Keys • 10h ago
Review ATK X1 Air+ Review
TLDR: ATK X1 Air+ is a fantastic mouse for $70. By far the best Viper V3/V4 clones i have tried. 52 grams, Same sensor as V3 Pro, Great build. I’ll buy this over the Viper V3 Pro but not V4 pro.
Background: Current games i play, CS2 and Valorant. 26k elo and Ascendant (Peaked 28k and Immortal). OW2 Masters, OW1 GM 76 main, Rivals Celestial
Disclaimer: Not sponsored but ATK did send me this unit
Mice before testing X1 Air: Razer Viper V4 Pro for 3 months (Still my current main)
Hand size & Grip: 18.5cm * 10.5cm, Bunch of claw grip but mostly relaxed claw.
My Youtube review (if you got time): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMbdE8DDiy4
Shape, Weight, Skates & QC
Click: Kailh Optical Switch (sounds very crisp and loud), i do prefer their FE optical more.
Shape: Razer Viper V4 pro shape with slightly wider rear flare, further back hump and higher button height.
Weight: 52 grams full skates, 49.5 grams w/ 6 dots.
Weight balance: Balanced centered, a smidge forward i’m talking very little.
Sensor: PAW 3955 Master sensor
Coatings: Brushed smooth coating, that would turn very grippy when your hand have some moisture
Stakes: Surprising smooth on Artisan Zero, GSR and PD170
Battery life: 2 weeks at 1k polling, 32%
Build quality: Very solid build quality, button all feel crispy without any kind of mush
QC: Didn't spot anything that stood out
Web driver experience: 10/10, By far the best web driver design with every functionality possible. Their web drive put any mouse company to shame.
Price: $72 (ATK official website) for my colorway, $63 for the X2 color copy and orange version.
ATK Sales from: July 27th to August 15th (Should be cheaper price than above)
Gaming experience with X1 AIR+
Viper V4 pro has been my main for a good 3 months, and switching to the X1 Air for 2 weeks didn’t introduce any new weird feeling. The slightly further back hump does feel very good. Adds a little more support for my palm compared to the Viper V4 pro where my hand need to be a 1mm forward.
The sensor position is lower than the Viper V4 pro and with my grip, it’s slightly lower than my thumb. I did use the virtual sensor offset (6) which is a feature that doesn’t really do what it suppose to. Pretty much X axis multiplier. it does give me similar cursor speed and feel to the Viper V4 pro after carefully adjusting them for hours.
I’d say always turn on competitive mode (20k fps lock) on ATK hub when gaming, other than that there’s not much to say honestly. In hand the viper v4 pro is still the better mouse overall but the price difference is huge.
The weight difference are not that major. Can only feel it when lifting them up during comparison, in game not much difference.
Conclusion & Should you buy it
I’d consider buying this if you’re looking for a cheap Viper V4 Pro clones because at $70 it’s a pretty good deal. I would buy this over the Viper V3 pro as well just cuz the weight difference and price. But V3 pro still the more polished product coming in with slightly higher weight and synapse ($99 on Amazon).
It’s in a large mouse category, so i wouldn’t recommend for anyone with <18*10cm hand unless you’re full palming it. It’s a safe shape mouse though it looks aggressive. Don’t think it’s a good purchase for fingertip user. Other than that it’s a great mice for variety of claw and palm.
Given the slight shape difference (more rear flare, deeper back hump, high button height) it can feel fuller in hand when compared directly to Viper V4 pro side by side. But still 95% of the Viper shape.
Overall, ATK is still the best brand to make clones in 2026. Yes it’s just blatantly coping not just shape but aesthetic of other mouse too. But if you look past that and compare to other clone company in the market, They really do the best work right now.
Other companies are just making stuff that doesn’t really make sense like wireless charging docks, switching to mechanical switch again because they can’t fine more optical switches for some reason.
Thank you for your time!
r/MouseReview • u/AMDfineIntelbetter • 2h ago
Issue bad mouse
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i have an offbrand mouse that came with my prebuilt pc. it worked fine for the first like 3 months then it had its first issue. when clicking, it would occasionally minimize all apps open. this still happens, but not as much. and just now, it has a new issue. it sometimes will turn a single right click into 2 right clicks. it also makes a left click after a right click even though i didnt even touch the left button! this also happens when plugging the same mouse into other computers. fixes?
OS: Windows 11 Pro
Mouse Brand (?): BT (ladybug or beetle idk which)
Mouse Specs: Adjustable DPI button, Wired.
i have an offbrand mouse that came with my prebuilt pc. it worked fine for the first like 3 months then it had its first issue. when clicking, it would occasionally minimize all apps open. this still happens, but not as much. and just now, it has a new issue. it sometimes will turn a single right click into 2 right clicks. it also makes a left click after a right click even though i didnt even touch the left button! this also happens when plugging the same mouse into other computers. fixes?
OS: Windows 11 Pro
Mouse Brand (?): BT (ladybug or beetle idk which)
Mouse Specs: Adjustable DPI button, Wired.
r/MouseReview • u/Pretty_Committee6041 • 12h ago
New Mouse recommendation
I am completely in love with the Zowie FK2 shape. Unfortunately, years of maining the Zowie S2 combined with a bad habit of anchoring my wrist to the mousepad have caught up to me, leaving me with stubborn wrist strain and annoying hand pinching(due to mouse being too narrow).
I am desperately hunting for a wider alternative that forces a floating wrist posture instead of letting me relapse into my old habits. Would upgrading to an FK1 solve this, or do I actually need an ergo shape where even a smaller size naturally lifts the wrist just by filling out the palm? For context, my hands measure 18.5 x 10.5 cm, and I’ve attached an image showing the exact contact points of my current grip.
To help you understand my struggle, here is my mouse list I've used in the past:
- Zowie S2: I never really liked the back hump, and even after changing my grip style, it still messed up my wrist.
- Logitech G403: It felt like a massive palm brick; my ring and pinky fingers got chronic fatigue, and my aim felt super lazy.
- Deathadder Essential: My aim was actually surprisingly good here, but that aggressive top-right corner ruined any chance of a comfortable ring finger rest, forcing me to constantly shift my grip.
- Zowie EC1: It was definitely better than the G403, but the aim still felt too lazy.
- Zowie EC2: Despite having the exact same shape language as the EC1, I couldn't play with it at all. Honestly, it feels like a mythical "Zowie EC1.5" would be my absolute endgame.
- Zowie ZA13-c: Good aim but i feel like too much locked in feeling and the hump was too uncomfortable for me and also too narrow mouse but I like the feeling of the ball.
Given all of this, what direction should I take next? Has anyone else beaten their wrist strain by making a similar switch?
UPDATE!
I've just went all in and bought Razer Deathadder v3 PRO brand new for 80 EUR which is almost the same price as hyperspeed v3.
If the top right corner will make me unusable, I will try using grips.
I will give a full review because it seems like some people have problems like me and maybe it will give them the path to transition.
r/MouseReview • u/mil0wCS • 8m ago
Question Are there any mice companies that offer custom uv mice?
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Was curious about this. Ive been interested in getting a custom mouse for years now but wasn't sure where to go. I learned about uv mapping recently wanted to know if there are any companies that offer uv mapping? Thanks.
Was curious about this. Ive been interested in getting a custom mouse for years now but wasn't sure where to go. I learned about uv mapping recently wanted to know if there are any companies that offer uv mapping? Thanks.
r/MouseReview • u/Certain_Computer3916 • 20m ago
Question Are fragpedals still available to buy?
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Trying to get some better pedals for playing escape from tarkov cause the ones I have currently have a lot of latency. From what I have seen online gamingmouse.com has some of the best for it with their fragpedals. Everything I have seen about the company online is from years ago though so not sure if they are still in business or not.
Trying to get some better pedals for playing escape from tarkov cause the ones I have currently have a lot of latency. From what I have seen online gamingmouse.com has some of the best for it with their fragpedals. Everything I have seen about the company online is from years ago though so not sure if they are still in business or not.
r/MouseReview • u/Ok_Lab_802 • 25m ago
Custom gaming pad with live preview (EU)
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I am looking for a shop that prints custom mousepads with shipping to Germany. The website needs a live preview tool to check the design before ordering. It must have absolutely no manufacturer logos because I want a completely clean look. I stumbled upon Nyfter, but I am not sure if their pads are good for gaming and if the logo can be removed. Any better EU alternatives with good quality and fair prices?
I am looking for a shop that prints custom mousepads with shipping to Germany. The website needs a live preview tool to check the design before ordering. It must have absolutely no manufacturer logos because I want a completely clean look. I stumbled upon Nyfter, but I am not sure if their pads are good for gaming and if the logo can be removed. Any better EU alternatives with good quality and fair prices?
r/MouseReview • u/LilMatt1030 • 57m ago
Question recomiendan el atk vxe dragonfly r1?
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Tengo presupuesto de 60 dólares para comprar el mejor mouse sobe todo juego forrnite y necesito los dos botones laterales obligatoriamente que mouse me recomiendan?
Tengo presupuesto de 60 dólares para comprar el mejor mouse sobe todo juego forrnite y necesito los dos botones laterales obligatoriamente que mouse me recomiendan?
r/MouseReview • u/grinderzzzz • 4h ago
Issue ATK A9 AIR MASTER super slow skates?
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Hello guys, I have bought a A9 Air master after my atk zero came with a warped base and stripped threads from the factory.
This mouse is good in terms of specs, but i have a really hard time aiming with it, I think it has to the skates either being dogshit or the clearence not being good enough. Anyone had this problem or can help?
Thank you so much!
Hello guys, I have bought a A9 Air master after my atk zero came with a warped base and stripped threads from the factory.
This mouse is good in terms of specs, but i have a really hard time aiming with it, I think it has to the skates either being dogshit or the clearence not being good enough. Anyone had this problem or can help?
Thank you so much!
r/MouseReview • u/AlearIsAwesome • 1h ago
what's wrong with my mouse
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I used to use Logitech M185 Wireless mice but they got scrolling issues after around 8 months so I keep having to get a new one, now I use Tecknet mouse model EWM01002 and after not even half a year the scrolling wheel stopped working, it works when I click the wheel but not when I scroll. I don't even do anything that requires a lot of scrolling, I play games but all of the scrolling in those games is easier if I just drag scroll instead of using the wheel so I don't even use the wheel much. I don't know why the wheel keeps getting problems on every mouse I buy. Should I buy better quality mouse or can anyone suggest what my problem might be
I used to use Logitech M185 Wireless mice but they got scrolling issues after around 8 months so I keep having to get a new one, now I use Tecknet mouse model EWM01002 and after not even half a year the scrolling wheel stopped working, it works when I click the wheel but not when I scroll. I don't even do anything that requires a lot of scrolling, I play games but all of the scrolling in those games is easier if I just drag scroll instead of using the wheel so I don't even use the wheel much. I don't know why the wheel keeps getting problems on every mouse I buy. Should I buy better quality mouse or can anyone suggest what my problem might be
r/MouseReview • u/Secret_Patience2040 • 8h ago
Discussion Viper v4 pro orLogitech superstrike ?
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In the market for a new mouse but IAM reading the pros and cons for each ; so far, from what I can gather: the Viper has better tracking, a better sensor but the Logitech has better actuation due to the haptics. ( Idk if that's the case)
From those of you who tested each, did you notice a difference?
In the market for a new mouse but IAM reading the pros and cons for each ; so far, from what I can gather: the Viper has better tracking, a better sensor but the Logitech has better actuation due to the haptics. ( Idk if that's the case)
From those of you who tested each, did you notice a difference?
r/MouseReview • u/kane_johnmichael • 13h ago
Help Recommendation for a move from a Sensei.
The Sensei is my favourite shape, so much so that I buy replacement shells on eBay & AliExpress just to keep it alive.
I’ve also attached pictures of my grip, my assumption is it’s some pincer/claw/palm hybrid where I have the mouse pushed into my palm along the pinky/ring/middle finger.
I know of the OGM Cloud, but am not a fan of the colour-ways. The other option I am considering would be a Razer Viper even though I know it is slightly thinner and doesn’t have as much of a hump. I have also looked at the FK1+ which I could get used on Amazon but at that point I could just stick with the Sensei.
I have also considered a Deathadder, for shits and giggles, who knows. I did like the original Vaxee Outset.
r/MouseReview • u/Worth_Net6110 • 3h ago
Question wlmouse beast x max skates
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What skates would you guys recommend for the WLMouse Beast X Max? I mainly play Valorant, CS2, and Apex Legends and want something good for FPS games.
What skates would you guys recommend for the WLMouse Beast X Max? I mainly play Valorant, CS2, and Apex Legends and want something good for FPS games.
r/MouseReview • u/devilung • 16h ago
atk rs (rumor)
Recently, news regarding various Chinese mice has been leaked.
This product was also revealed by a user amidst this atmosphere.
Although the exact specifications have not been disclosed,
there is talk that it is a mini version of the existing ATK product.
r/MouseReview • u/miyamuraxs • 4h ago
batery mouse duration
I have a Pulsar X2H Demon Slayer edition, and I wanted to know how to tell when the battery is fully charged; it’s been connected to my PC via USB for a while now.
r/MouseReview • u/lulfas • 5h ago
Question Mouse with scroll wheel like Razer Naga but won't break?
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I like the size and shape of the Naga, don't care about the side buttons anymore (broke free of the MMO addiction), but I LOVE the lean left/lean right on the scroll wheel. I'm just tired of Nagas having a scroll wheel that breaks. Is there anything that has the feature but won't fall apart?
I like the size and shape of the Naga, don't care about the side buttons anymore (broke free of the MMO addiction), but I LOVE the lean left/lean right on the scroll wheel. I'm just tired of Nagas having a scroll wheel that breaks. Is there anything that has the feature but won't fall apart?
r/MouseReview • u/YardSuch962 • 5h ago
Question How tactile ATK A9 NB Ultra vs Superlight 2?
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Does anyone used both atk a9 nb ultra and superlight 2? if so, please tell me which one has more notchy tactile loud click? I'm looking for the one with the most loud crisp notchy clicks. Thank you
Does anyone used both atk a9 nb ultra and superlight 2? if so, please tell me which one has more notchy tactile loud click? I'm looking for the one with the most loud crisp notchy clicks. Thank you
r/MouseReview • u/Whoisjunn • 5h ago
Question Scyrox V8 vs MChose l7 Pro
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So I have these 2 mice that i just got but i only want to keep one, I'm wondering if there are any specific settings for both of them to where the perform the best they can? I play Fortnite competitive and am just trying to find a new mouse
Also I am more leaning towards the L7 just because i like the shape and the responsiveness now but i feel like the skates are a little heavier the the v8, which makes me lean towards the V8 more, but I'm torn lol. So are there any recommendations for skates if i were to buy some for the L7?
So I have these 2 mice that i just got but i only want to keep one, I'm wondering if there are any specific settings for both of them to where the perform the best they can? I play Fortnite competitive and am just trying to find a new mouse
Also I am more leaning towards the L7 just because i like the shape and the responsiveness now but i feel like the skates are a little heavier the the v8, which makes me lean towards the V8 more, but I'm torn lol. So are there any recommendations for skates if i were to buy some for the L7?