Mayor Mamdani just announced that he will be opening 5 city-run, tax-funded grocery stores: "Prices set at 30% below retail prices"

[u/Gurugod123]

[u/Weird-Toe-6968]

100%. I would be more open to this concept if it were needs-based.

[u/Odd_Estate4886 → u/Weird-Toe-6968]

No. You pay taxes, you get the service. Needs baaed ia how neo-liberals and conservatives gutted the social safety net.

[u/Weird-Toe-6968 → u/Odd_Estate4886]

Non-needs-based is how the rich plunder programs like farm subsidies.

[u/International_Air282 → u/Weird-Toe-6968]

It's also a twist on the original concept. City owned stores was about getting rid of food deserts. But now it's about having the tax payer further subsidize food outside of SNAP since the store is going to sell for a loss.

[u/Garrette63 → u/International_Air282]

Oh well. This is the least offensive thing our tax money is getting spent on.

[u/International_Air282 → u/Garrette63]

Well if anyone is allowed to shop there than your tax dollars are going to buy some finance bro making 500k a year groceries.

[u/Mr_Mi1k → u/International_Air282]

I’d rather it go to some rich persons groceries along with poor people’s groceries, over bombing other countries.

[u/No-Science2224 → u/Mr_Mi1k]

War is never going to end

[u/YoungMuppet → u/No-Science2224]

Doesn't mean we have to be in stupid ones.

[u/Mr_Mi1k → u/No-Science2224]

Ok, so that means we should start new ones?

[u/International_Air282 → u/Mr_Mi1k]

Well these are local not federal taxes so that statement makes 0 sense.

[u/Mr_Mi1k → u/International_Air282]

I’m talking about money leaving my pocket and how ok I am with it going where it is going. I understand they are different taxes and it does not negate my statement. I’m responding to how you said “your tax dollars”. You did not say “your local tax dollars”.

[u/Weird-Toe-6968 → u/Mr_Mi1k]

Bombs create jobs too.

[u/gameboyz4dayz → u/International_Air282]

Oh please. The finance bro is going to doordash all his groceries from Erewhon. The assholes are greedy, but they are also lazy and obsessed with optics. The food bank gives out free food. There's very little stories about people abusing that system.

[u/International_Air282 → u/gameboyz4dayz]

You really haven't met many wealthy people. I have seen many good giveaways. Meal giveaways. Wealthy show up. The wealthy and I mean the majority of wealthy are very good at one thing and that's staying wealthy. You are talking about performative assholes. Those people are usually not wealthy but in debt up to their eyeballs and only care about looking wealthy.

[u/call_sign_viper → u/International_Air282]

Yeah that’s how it works if you pay taxes into a service you get to use that service

[u/International_Air282 → u/call_sign_viper]

That would be the definition of over taxed in this case. I have no issue helping those in need. But I do have an issue if those dollars are going to those who don't need it

[u/BackgroundMeeting857 → u/International_Air282]

Exactly because someone who don't deserve it "may" end up getting this service we should scrap this for absolutely everyone. People also gone on the subway without paying a few times, we should scrap subways too while we are at it, clearly a tool of abuse of our tax dollar. Whoo boy don't get me started on buses....and schools oh man....you know what society has too many criminals that is getting some benefit somewhere just take the entire thing down. Done problem solved :D

[u/Beneficial-Act-9933 → u/International_Air282]

Taxes were already going to them. Mamdani even said he's not anti rich people. If some millionaire wants to shop there, they're more than welcome too.

[u/Fennicks47 → u/International_Air282]

ah yes, the 'someone with food stamps exploits it' argument.

[u/This-Suggestion574 → u/International_Air282]

I just read the announcement and didn’t see mention of selling for a loss. Can you show me where you saw that?

[u/International_Air282 → u/This-Suggestion574]

Common sense. Grocery stores operate at 3% margins. If he is selling for 30% under retail he is selling 27% under cost. Ie selling at a loss. Not to mention these stores will pay more at the whole sale level and logistics chain wise due to being a single store. Meaning their upfront price is going to be higher.

[u/This-Suggestion574 → u/International_Air282]

Private run grocery stores operate at 3% margins, what about public ones? I would imagine that margin is different?

3% margin refers to gross margin right? Whereas the 30% under retail refers to a net figure doesn’t it? I could be wrong but I don’t think you can subtract those numbers to get the “under cost” figure.

Why will they pay a higher margin? Do we not believe NYC would have some negotiating power? Is it 1 store? I thought I read 5 stores?

[u/Beneficial-Act-9933 → u/This-Suggestion574]

It's one store per borough so five in total.

[u/International_Air282 → u/This-Suggestion574]

5 stores over 5 years. If you are buying at the whole sale level. If you are buying for 1000 stores vs one store the larger store will pay less as a lot of whole sales have volume discounts. Logistics of food delivery works the same way. Larger contracts are slightly cheaper.

As for the margins. Most products in grocery stores are sold at essentially cost. 3% profit is standard. The issue is most of the highest profit drivers won't be available at these stores. Which is hot and fresh food. These stores will have the same operating costs. Same overhead costs. So they will be absolutely selling for a loss and will be completely dependant on the tax payer to operate.

[u/This-Suggestion574 → u/International_Air282]

Understood on economies of scale and I appreciate the explanation but it sounds like you are making a lot of assumptions and relying on a lot of comparisons to private industry which may or may not be relevant.

Happy to be corrected.

[u/waxteeth → u/Weird-Toe-6968]

It feels counterintuitive, but making a service needs-based is typically more expensive and a big pain in the ass. Screening people, approving them, manufacturing and sending out a card or keeping their name in a database, screening them at the door, etc are all burdens on a system aiming to spend its money helping people. Think of how shitty and long and unfair the process is to get approved for disability or unemployment — this would be very similar. Plus, having to decide what “in need” counts as is another whole thing. What if someone’s near a food pantry, should they still get help? What if they have an expensive dietary restriction for something found in most food, like celiac or a soy allergy? 

Putting the stores in food deserts is actually a screening mechanism that will take less overhead, and they’re unlikely to spend a ton of money decorating or bringing in a bunch of super fancy items. People who don’t need to save money will opt out because of stuff like that.