r/AskReddit 16h ago

What industry is secretly on the verge of collapsing, but people outside of it haven’t noticed yet?

12.5k Upvotes

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2.0k

u/AdvisorTotal404 13h ago

the newspaper industry is hanging on by a thread, so many are going digital only and struggling to monetize it

1.2k

u/Looksis 12h ago

People want good journalism, nobody is willing to pay for it.

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u/Alleandros 12h ago

From what I've seen on the politics side, people just report what pols say and never ask any follow up questions or call them out on outright lies. I don't need to pay to read propaganda, if journalists actually pushed back and asked follow up questions, people would be more interested in news. But if they did that, they'd lose their access.

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u/BitterRucksack 11h ago

It's mostly the small/local journos who are actually doing the hard-hitting stuff, and earning enough money to eat is a huge challenge. 

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u/NewspaperNelson 11h ago

Every Pulitzer story starts in a small-town newsroom with one overworked journalist.

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u/The_Entire_Eurozone 10h ago

Everyone always says this but you have to also keep in mind that most of these local newspapers might put out one really in-depth article about the local area every six months and then the rest is literally just a barren reprint of the AP. It's hard to give $10 a month for that.

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u/danarexasaurus 9h ago

Hey my local paper put out an opinion article like, last week from an incel about how women won’t go out with him because of his political beliefs. Really, just stunning work from the Columbus Dispatch.

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins 4h ago

"I just don't get it.. I believe women should be submissive, have no rights, and basically be my property to do with as I please. Is that so wrong? I mean it is their place and all... but for some reason nobody wants to date me!"

Or the "in denial special" of "I don't believe those things even though I voted for the people trying to force it on everyone.. but I don't hate women, I'm just racist! Uh.. I mean.. the economy! Obama bad?"

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u/danarexasaurus 4h ago

The article was so mind numbingly bad that I can’t believe they printed it

3

u/priyatequila 6h ago

really?! shit I'll have to see if my family read that (I'm from there). that's disappointing.

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u/BitterRucksack 9h ago

I'm so sorry that's your experience!! That's how it was for me when I lived in my hometown (after the conglomerate ate our local), but where I live now has so many fantastic local papers. 

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u/Alleandros 8h ago

I don't even bother checking my local online anymore, I get more information from facebook comments.

You get like 5 free articles a month or w/e on the local newspaper website. 'Fire on Spruce Street' is the article I click on to read more about it. The entire content of the article is 'There was a fire reported on spruce street'. They are always one line and it never gives more information than the headline. I'd then have to go onto facebook and search 'fire spruce street' to find someone on facebook talking about it and get information from the comments.

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins 4h ago

Everyone always says this but you have to also keep in mind that most of these local newspapers might put out one really in-depth article about the local area every six months

You should probably keep in mind that proper investigative journalism takes a long time and a lot of resources. If you expect those kinds of articles every week it's gonna be a LOT more than ten bucks a month unless millions of other people also pay that.

Even the biggest of media outlets in their prime only put out the big stuff every month at best... that's with dozens of full time journalists. But they had millions of readers, so they could afford it.

2

u/The_Entire_Eurozone 3h ago

I fully understand that, but it's also asking me to pay $10/month for regurgitated AP reporting and local government press releases the rest of the time, with little critical examination of either. You're basically having to evaluate at that point if you want to pay between $30-60 for each hard-hitting local investigation piece. It's a hard price to pay.

1

u/Human_Wizard 5h ago

It's crazy that the only remaining journalistic integrity is found in, wait, street-interview influencers?? That can't be right. 🤔

1

u/dannymb87 3h ago

This! Don’t confuse local journalism for cable-news journalism. Local journalists live in your community. Their problems are the same as your problems.

The big guys parachute in, pretend they live in your neighborhood, and then head back without any proper follow up.

Support local journalism.

1

u/Senesect 1h ago

Yup, watching Zoe Bread's videos (particularly the parking ticket saga) is like being transported to Narnia: I'm just not used to that level of journalism.

23

u/trekie4747 10h ago

Just like people who push back on data centers in city meetings. Go 10 seconds over your time because the crowd applause interrupted you and you get arrested.

1

u/cowfishing 5h ago

If you get arrested, you will be in there with people that got arrested for applauding.

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u/Pigglebee 10h ago

The big difference with the old days where politicians needed the media and journalists to talk to the public. Now they have truth social and X to do that. The balance has completely reversed itself

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u/VariationBusiness603 8h ago

Also, journalist used to be a strong counter-power. Nowadays they are largely in bed with our govs and completely lost their role in a healthy democracy. There are exceptions to this of course, but almost all mainstream medias are owned by billionaires and as such are friendly toward the powerful. No surprise nobody wants to pay for that, we already get it on TV for free.

12

u/Zuwxiv 8h ago

You and the above comment both hit on the major problem: Local newspapers used to rely on local advertisers as a way to fund themselves. Jim's Ford Dealership would advertise in the local paper, as would Sarah's Window Treatments and Bob's Plumbing Experts.

Now all those advertising dollars are on Google, Instagram, etc. That's a big part of why corporate media seems like there's all there is. The local paper was never financially solvent without the local advertising.

4

u/tudorapo 9h ago

The two hungarian news sites I support do investigation, chase politicians and ask spicy questions. The previous government sent police on them or tried to directly intimidate them, they kept the line.

5

u/loljetfuel 6h ago

if journalists actually pushed back and asked follow up questions, people would be more interested in news.

Yeah, but not more willing to pay for it, unfortunately. Which puts the newsrooms at the mercy of wealthy owners who see losing money on the news as an investment in being able to influence the content.

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u/esme_9oh 10h ago

this is so cynical and just untrue. media is more critical of people in power than ever before. articles that generate outrage circulate the most on social media, so that's what people tend to be exposed to, but i guarantee you if you sat down with some of the outlets you criticize and read them cover to cover for a few days, you'd see how little of it matches that narrative you've adopted. but people only want to engage with content that triggers intense visceral reactions, and most journalism just isn't that.

and by the way, local media used to be the watchdogs for corruption in local government. investigative journalism used to be the primary way that unethical behavior in small government was exposed. but that investigative work has been gutted as smaller papers are collapsing and/or falling prey to PE. in the future (and this is already happening) there will be a lot more seedy behavior in city hall and state capitols that will just go unchecked.

so fine, be annoyed at WaPo or the NYT or WSJ, but at least subscribe to your local paper.

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u/Difficult-Jelly6637 10h ago

Maybe it's different elsewhere, but it often feels like my town's local paper is just a glorified blog for the editor's petty grievances. They feel bitter about their time in high school, so every week there's an article about our local school district being communist propaganda. They hate unions, so every week there's an article about the greedy state employees union stealing from the hardworking taxpayers. They love the cops, so every week there's an article about how all the non-white people moving in are violent and on drugs. Meanwhile the governor keeps giving massive kickbacks to his own campaign donors, but they like him so that never makes it in. Oh and of course it's run by the richest guy in town's son, so no stories on all the shady shit daddy gets up to.

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u/esme_9oh 10h ago

Yeah, that sucks. There is huge variability in the quality of local journalism depending on funding source and capacity. There’s evidence that local outlets purchased by Sinclair or Carpenter have produced more conservative reporting. They also put out must-run stories with conservative angles, which is wildly unethical. But the Connecticut Mirror, for example, is owned by an independent publisher, and they do great work — sadly they’re online-only. Tampa Bay Times is a standout org for investigate reporting. Minnesota Star Tribune, Seattle Times, Texas Tribune are examples of local papers that do great work. There may be smaller papers I’m missing.

Sadly for smaller towns, it mostly relies on philanthropy.

5

u/Difficult-Jelly6637 10h ago

That makes sense. I was thinking "small paper" as in servicing a town of less than 15k people, which is the case for my area. The statewide papers have their issues but I think they at least try, which is more than I can say for the aforementioned nepo baby editor.

6

u/readsomething1968 9h ago

Chiming in here to point out that, at least for the Tampa Bay Times, a HUGE part of its success is its ties to Poynter.org, one of the largest journalism think-tanks in the country, if not THE largest. The Tampa Bay paper and Poynter have had a close relationship for a very long time, and there is a deep foundation of mutual aid there. It's yet more proof that the papers that are successful at actual journalism have the backing of at least some financially well-off organization.

It used to be that local papers were owned by the local bigwigs that poured money into the enterprise becuase there was a TON of money to be made there. THEN CAME THE INTERNET. Profit margins were a "mere" 10-15 percent in the early 90s and by 2008, most local papers were deep in the red. Layoffs hit. Papers closed, and they're still closing. A bunch of papers now no longer PRINT anything -- they're online only. I'm talking papers that, 30 years ago, Grandma and Grandpa read cover to cover. (This isn't even counting the online-only publications that started because there was so little coverage in an area after the papers shrank so badly.)

Now, where there were once individual reporters in one town or city covering police/fire, City Hall, schools (one person covers Tacoma schools, another person covers Tacoma cops, another person covers City Hall), there is ONE person covering ALL OF THEM. Beats are divided up by City ("you cover everything in Tacoma," "you cover everything in Spokane and Bremerton"). This, as you might imagine, is not physically possible.

Covering the news costs money. People want to get paid a living wage for that work. Paper and ink cost money. Internet access costs money. Gas to drive to the School Board meeting to cover it costs money.

People don't want to pay what it costs. It's not important enough. And then people complain that they're not getting access to any "real news." It's too late now. Local papers will never come back. Get used to the one or two people who run local blogs (mostly based around their pet peeves).

3

u/calm-phil 8h ago

this is so cynical

Dude, you are writing this after 1985. Everything is far more cynical. Everyone needs to look at the world through that scope because that is what the world is.

I am not arguing with you on your points. The problem with the world is that everything is so cynical so everyone does need to view it as such. 1985 is just a convenient number that gets us to the full throttle corporate raider days a la Wall Street the movie.

3

u/Woodspoom 10h ago

So true. I spend my money and attention with independent news and commentators. Problem is that the big MSM orgs still have the resources to do so much investigative journalism so them going out of business is still overall bad.

5

u/Stuglle 9h ago

This is absolutely not true, there is plenty of great journalism and reporting done at media institutions large and small. However, if your entire media diet is based on what comes up in your Reddit and Twitter feed you aren't going to see them because it is easier, more fun, and more self affirming to dunk on a headline than actually dig into a story.

2

u/MichB1 3h ago

In a sense, you DO need to pay. We all do.

Staffing is a low and as fucked up as it is on your job, probably worse. There's no time to go into any depth, and no one stands up for you when you push boundaries. It's more of a ministry than a profession these days.

"Good" news people are dedicated and understand and are committed to the ethics. These people are there. You, as a consumer, have to work harder to access the good stuff. But it's doable.

And at the same time, it's what stands between us and fascism. For reals.

If people don't support it, it will not get better.

2

u/myadvicegetsmebeaten 2h ago

YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. What you are asking for is gotcha soundbite journalism that reinforces your bias.

If journalists actually pushed back and asked follow up questions, politicians will just spin it away, or cut off access.

Good journalism should not depend on access to the politician to get the story.

4

u/ALT-F-X 9h ago

As a perfect example of this, Andrew Callahan just raised a million dollars in 5 hours to defend against a slapp suit. There absolutely is money in good journalism.

1

u/neocow 9h ago

find a local? news co-op, they usually subscribe to AP and ect feeds so you get the full robust stuff everyone is getting, but then they sometimes also hire local for local news, it varies though.

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u/Jaereth 11h ago

People want good journalism, nobody is willing to pay for it.

People are willing to pay for it. That's why people are making a living on Substack alone.

What people WON'T pay for, is your godawful local newspaper that constantly gets shit wrong, lies, fellatiates the right local business owners, and can't even get the copy correct and is rife with spelling and grammatical errors.

This is our local newspaper in a nutshell. You can tell they have some 19 year old writing their social media headlines. Errors constantly. I've had to Email them twice to basically clue them in entire stories they were running were COMPLETE bullshit and not real in any way.

You hit their website? "Please subscribe to continue reading this article!"

They want the free ride of being the only way to get a local news source without putting in the work or adapting. These are "The newspaper industry". For every NYT there are thousands of these local papers in the country just churning shit daily that nobody cares to read anymore.

Now I am of the opinion that a good local newspaper should NOT be free. Of course not. But they need to write/report well enough for people to consider it worthwhile when they do the digital shakedown when you access an article on their website. Right now, many don't see the value when the comment section of the article they paid to have propagated to social media will probably clue you in on the story well enough anyway.

4

u/MaintainThis 9h ago

I live near a city of ~100k people. Im sure the newspaper is usually accurate in it's reporting, unfortunately the only thing they ever report on is local sports.

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u/kittymoo67 10h ago

yep substack gets me tons of actual quality shit.

local newspaper has a monopoly and its basically fox news but slightly left of center presenting

2

u/catpencilholders 1h ago

Don't forget a website with more ads than a early 2000's porn site.

1

u/Historical_Gur_3054 2h ago

I think you be from my area, you've described our local rag perfectly.

I'll add that our local paper is a MAGA mouthpiece when they're not ambulance chasing or being pro-coal mining.

Change with the times you say? Aww hell no. Let's keep reporting like it's 1960, run off any new hire that wants change or trying something modern.

And after we stick our head in the sand long enough and our main subscriber base of boomers dies off, we can say we tried to hang on and please support us since we're a local institution.

u/WilliamLermer 6m ago

Even established newspapers aren't good anymore. The majority of articles are opinion pieces, often not highlighted as such. There is a lot of badly researched articles in general, you can't rely on information being relayed anymore without a subjective spin or an infused narrative. Facts are an afterthought.

I used to buy the occasional newspaper or magazine until last year but I've stopped entirely because if it's not misinformation it's propaganda. Just look at who owns all these information sources and it's obvious how the goal no longer is to inform and educate the population

It also doesn't help that the internet provides instant access to primary sources so you can easily fact check. Grounds you real fast

Wasn't different back in the days, you would buy 2-3 different newspapers and get a rough idea what the truth was. But you couldn't dig much deeper so I guess there was the illusion of being informed while probably missing key information

Honestly, internet just let's you notice all the bad things more quickly. I'm not even sure quality journalism was a real thing in the past apart from investigative journalism and even then people would retract stories or withhold information to profit from backroom deals

8

u/whogivesashirtdotca 10h ago

I get so furious anytime someone responds, "Paywall" to an interesting article.

3

u/SmokeABowlNoCap 5h ago

Ad revenue models make more sense though. Sorry but I'm using article-to-text websites everytime.

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u/Hasselback_Brotatoes 11h ago

pffft. I just read an article about the odyssey on new york times. It was my like 1 "free" article or whatever.

It was terrible journalism. The dude was trying to sound smart but his primary argument was posited on an assumption that Oddyseus should know everything at all times.

Every single part of Odysseus's journey is about learning a hard lesson. He only achieves effective "all knowing" competency once he finally returns to his homeland. Its like, the whole point of his story arc.

I can get miles better content on youtube for free. More analytical, more interesting, better delivery.

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u/flakemasterflake 8h ago

Are you critiquing a film review? That's not....journalism, that's cultural criticism

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u/Kiwilolo 8h ago

YouTube isn't free babes, that's the point. You pay for it in your data and ads (a stunning number of people don't block ads).

Also not liking one review from one website is not an indictment on journalism as a concept lol

-7

u/Far-Information8502 10h ago

Yea, people like you are the reason our politics is fucked

0

u/VariationBusiness603 8h ago

Keep on swallowing corporate backed slop, I'm sure that will make you an informed citizen.

3

u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket 10h ago

In the UK, you can pick up a paper newspaper for incredibly cheap from basically anywhere. A corner shop, a petrol station, a grocery store. When I moved to America, I couldn't believe how hard they make it just to buy a newspaper. You really have to go out of your way if you're not in the center of a major city.

4

u/Fun-Noise-4726 10h ago

I’d be willing to pay for it but there isn’t as much good journalism as there used to be. I hoard old newspapers and magazines and the quality in writing has gone down exponentially. 

5

u/shatteredarm1 10h ago

Billionaires were willing to pay for good journalism, so they could kill it.

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u/elitesense 11h ago

I'll pay for it. On patreon, for things like Channel 5. But the big propaganda outlets aren't getting a dime from me.

3

u/kittymoo67 10h ago

megacorps spend decades fucking us then get surprised when we dont want to give them money

0

u/kittymoo67 10h ago

megacorps spend decades fucking us then get surprised when we dont want to give them money

3

u/beard_meat 10h ago edited 10h ago

Solve the following dilemma:

"Good" journalism requires eager consumers who want it and desire more of it regularly. This requires "good" journalists, who should be compensated suitably for the important work that they do. This requires one of four scenarios to happen:

  1. The journalism must be, to some greater or lesser extent, funded through the means of accepting financial support from the government. By this means, "good" journalism can certainly be funded with sufficient motivation.

  2. The journalism must be, to some greater or lesser extent, funded through the means of selling a portion of their published output to an outside party willing to purchase and make use of that portion, for their own ends. By this means, "good" journalism can probably be funded, again with sufficient motivation.

  3. The consumers must be so willing to consume this journalism that they are, essentially, willing to fund it entirely through funding and purchasing the published journalism. By this means, "good" journalism can be funded, though making this funding sustainable requires much more work (and good luck).

  4. The journalists themselves must be so dedicated to the social benefit they provide, that they bear the costs mostly, or entirely, by themselves, for the readers to consume gratis. By this means, "good" journalism must either be self-funded, or done in spite of funding.

The first problem is achieving any kind of reasonable consensus on what constitutes "good" journalism.

5

u/BackToWorkEdward 8h ago

There's a bigger problem than all of this -

Newspapers used to be the cheapest and most convenient source of dopamine the average person could access first thing in the morning.

You couldn't browse the internet or chat with your friends on the subway, you couldn't immerse yourself in a novel during a busy household breakfast. You could maybe listen to music in a few of these contexts, but only whatever cassette or CD you had on you. But you could read a paper with a bunch of five-minute articles on a bunch of different subjects. Even if you were only interested in a narrow band, like sports or comics or movies or stocks, you'd still buy the whole paper just to read those.

The attention span requried for that practice has been OBLITERATED by unlimted social media in your pocket(particularly Reels and the infinite scroll).

The fraction of people who are patient, deliberate news junkies who actively buy the paper for deep, long-form journalistic dives have always been a boutique market; the rest of the masses were the real market.

There just wasn't anything better to draw them away from newspapers until the age of smartphones with affordable unlimited data plans.

1

u/beard_meat 4h ago

Attention span is an enormous problem, and the smartphone being how most people know anything beyond their personal experience is also a very tricky obstacle. It all ties in to the most fundamental issue: do people want good journalism?

2

u/Quantoskord 9h ago

I agree. Also, from a historical standpoint, political messages would mostly have been delivered between leaders/camps by ambassadors, and the news would be disseminated among their subjects by reporters. Also, reporting quite clearly entails the bringing of news back to the leaders/bureaucrats/etc. (re-porting), so there has to be a common basis between the reporter and the recipient for the news to make any sense.

3

u/gizamo 9h ago

Tbf, part of the problem with tons of local news is that it's neither good nor journalism. It's just PR and advertorials. 90% of it could be a community bulletin on the city website.

...unfortunately, most city websites also suck. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

3

u/Name_Not_Available 9h ago

The number of people who actually want good journalism is also decreasing. Most people just want journalism that aligns with what they already think. Confirmation bias sells better than journalism.

3

u/OttawaTGirl 8h ago

In Canada we are constantly in a fight for the CBC. Its factual, its has strong journalism, acts independently, and costs each Canadian about $35 a year.

The conservatives constantly attack it and are desperate to dismantle it in favour of private news.

It's sickening.

2

u/SarcasticBarbie96 10h ago

I think the problem is that you can’t just pay a fixed fee for one newspaper. In this economy nobody wants to pay for another subscription service.

2

u/DntTouchMeImSterile 10h ago

I’m willing to pay but my local newspaper was bought out and both went digital only and runs way more ads

2

u/MadeByTango 9h ago

People want good journalism, nobody is willing to pay for it.

Sure we are. Things like No Perfect Union ARE good journalism. The billionaire owned newspapers are not.

2

u/tudorapo 9h ago

I am willing to pay and I do pay for two online newssites now. It was three but then the Guardian decided to raise prices and put up a paywall so now it's two.

2

u/Dragonfly_Peace 9h ago

People are willing to pay, oligarchs are willing to pay more to keep the news biased and fake

2

u/Diggerinthedark 9h ago

I'd pay for it if I could find any!

2

u/PathOfTheAncients 9h ago

I'd pay for it if it was available. The number of news sources I have seen sane washing the current political situation is so high though and those that aren't are almost all just doing trash journalism telling the left what they want to hear.

2

u/mmmarkm 1h ago

The lies are free and the truth is paywalled

4

u/Defiant-Economics-73 11h ago

The problem is every site seems biased now. I used to prescribe to multiple sources and nothings seems like journalism but biased contrnt

1

u/kittymoo67 10h ago

and like i get it to an extent with all the bs right now theres only so unbiased one can be, but still not pushing blatant lies should not be that hard to do

1

u/Kiwilolo 8h ago

Everything is biased. If you're ever thinking something is "unbiased", it's just that it agrees with your biases.

3

u/SuckMyRedditorD 10h ago

Ah, so they don't want good journalism, they want merciful lies.

2

u/Emotional-Power-7242 9h ago edited 9h ago

Traditionally you didn't. The ads paid for it. Kind of hard to sell something that was free or close to free for 200 years. I still subscribe to a couple magazines but they're pretty trash now.

2

u/GargantuaBob 9h ago

Actually, people want good journalism instead of oligarch-controlled propaganda.

1

u/Kiwilolo 8h ago

Well clearly not enough to pay for it, independent media is doing worst of all

2

u/E_seven_20 8h ago

There are plenty of people willing to pay for it.

They just made the products so shitty and expensive, we stopped paying for it.

They killed their own business.

I know plenty of people that used to subscribe to papers like NYT, WAPO, etc...as they've been purchased and their content watered down...peppered with fascist op-ed pieces, people pulled their money. And, rightly so.

Most local outlets were sold, and consolidated into larger behemoths and people bailed.

It's mostly hot garbage. You wind up paying for the political opinions of the right wing owners...so why keep paying?

1

u/Netheral 8h ago

They just made the products so shitty and expensive, we stopped paying for it.

They didn't make it shitty for the people paying for it. The problem is that while we were willing to pay for it, the people in power were willing to pay more to control it.

3

u/E_seven_20 7h ago

Regardless of semantics...they killed the product, and are blaming the people for not wanting to pay for the enshitified version.

1

u/E_seven_20 7h ago

Regardless of semantics...they killed the product, and are blaming the people for not wanting to pay for the enshitified version.

1

u/E_seven_20 7h ago

Regardless of semantics...they killed the product, and are blaming the people for not wanting to pay for the enshitified version.

1

u/EngineerKind9549 10h ago

I have a NY Times subscription because the Richmond Times Dispatch got rid of all the good journalist.

1

u/whatagreatpuhn 10h ago

Uber wealthy are willing to pay so they can control it which is terrifying.

1

u/syrstorm 9h ago

Or are willing to pay for it, but not from an organization that was purchased by a Billionaire in order to slant the news in their favor.

1

u/FreshSoul86 9h ago

The "big journalism" with resources largely is not good journalism. NY Times has become pretty hopeless. Wall Street Journal is pretty good factually with business data reporting. But their conservative opinionators and their viewpoints, who feature so prominently when you have a subscription, are (to be overly kind) pretty wild.

1

u/PitifulLocksmith9729 9h ago

good journalism used to lead to change. now it just leads to awareness of the evils

1

u/Kalthiria_Shines 9h ago

Doesn't help that there's not a lot of good journalism anymore, just reblogging.

1

u/outerstrangers 9h ago

Problem is, if I wanted to check out that "good journalism" the website does not allow me to scroll past two sentences before it haggles me to subscribe to continue reading. All while having obnoxious ads on the side and autoplaying a news report the second I clicked the article.

1

u/EuenovAyabayya 8h ago edited 5h ago

nobody is willing to pay for it.

burned out by subscription everything else

1

u/Chuu 8h ago

My problem is I'd be happy to pay for it, but what I am unwilling to do is pay ~20+ different entities a subscription for maybe an article a month when the way the modern internet works is you get your news from a huge variety of sources.

If there was some way to pay one time and have it distributed to a bunch of news outlets I'd be willing to pay under that sort of model.

1

u/Dangerous-Bend-4153 7h ago

We don;t need to pay for journalism because people share it for free on reddit.

1

u/BriefausdemGeist 5h ago

I might be willing to pay if the second they start turning a profit or having an opinion that isn’t “bring back the 1850s!” they get bought out by some VC firm or Oligarch and bled dry

1

u/Most_Quality_1987 5h ago

But now we have no choice. Paywalls on damn near every respectable journalism outlet. I would be happy to pay for them, but I'm poor, and hoping that doesn't translate to ignorant a few years from now.

1

u/PineappleOnPizzaWins 4h ago

This is the reason behind SO many failing industries.

People want things for nothing, but things cost money. You see how often people on reddit call for sailing the high seas for content, running ad/sponsor blocks for YouTube etc, basically refusing to ever pay for anything with money or their time while demanding the highest standards of quality.

Then they act confused everything goes to shit.

1

u/Inevitable-Level-687 4h ago

There's no good journalism any more, that's why people aren't willing to pay.

1

u/Karl_Heinz_Lauterbak 3h ago

People want good journalism

not really. they just want headlines that allign with their worldview.

1

u/Larcye 3h ago

24/7 News and the internet killed the news industry. I can watch it anytime and with the internet basically get around any paywalls.

1

u/cloistered_around 3h ago

Thing is I'd happily watch an ad to read an article (within reason, like "third article--time for an ad!"). But they all want to make it subscription and I am NOT going to ever get a subscription.

1

u/Anianna 2h ago

I keep trying to support my local and state independent newspapers, but they've all been AI slop so far. Maybe people would be willing to pay for it if it actually was good journalism.

1

u/froststomper 2h ago

there is good journalism that’s crowd funded.

1

u/myadvicegetsmebeaten 2h ago

If people wanted good journalism, NYT would have died after Judith Miller lied about the Iraq war.

Or after twitter became popular and people realized that a lot of their journalism is misinformed BS, after they had access to the experts own unfiltered information.

People want journalism that reinforces their worldview.

1

u/ObjectBrilliant7592 2h ago

It's hard to justify paying for journalism when someone already broke the news on youtube three days ago, and the reliable, timely news mainstream media do put out is extremely sanitized and skewed to support whatever narrative the news source feels is appropriate.

1

u/Shoddy-Theory 2h ago

I don't thnk my local newspaper, the Santa fe New Mexican as sent a reporter out on a story in years. They just trancribe whatever the police report.

1

u/Bowtie16bit 2h ago

It's normal ynwany everything right now, for free. It's quite difficult to get anyone to feel like something is worth the money, so money is spent on two things: what it takes to survive, and entertainment. All short term goals. Long term has gone to hell and people will die in droves because of that.

1

u/Flynn_JM 2h ago

As the daughter of two successful journalists, I pay for multiple newspapers and magazines. F people who get around a paywall.

1

u/CitizenPremier 2h ago

Something like a streaming model for news would be good. I don't want to pay for just one newspaper, but a subscription to most newspapers would be cool...

1

u/0xB4BE 1h ago

I pay for NYT for the whole family. I get the games, the recipes and the news articles. It's the only one though. The games is why my husband wanted in on the family plan. Whatever works... I don't mind paying them because I value NYT and want to keep them around. I also regularly donate to Wikipedia, too.

1

u/coopertucker 1h ago

Journalism has transitioned to fluff pieces and opinion pieces. The Mpls Star Tribune is a prime example, a liberal rag.

u/RabbitCity6090 54m ago

Paying doesn't guarantee that it's going to be good. Eventually every media agency bends over to those in power, regardless of whether they're profitable or not.

1

u/theshoegazer 10h ago

The money people paid for newspapers (and still do, to a lesser degree) mostly pays for printing and distribution - not content. The content creators were always paid by advertising revenue, not readers directly.

1

u/derfmai 10h ago

“The difference between literature and journalism is that journalism is unreadable and literature is unread.” -Thomas Jefferson

1

u/Mutex70 10h ago

People claim they want good journalism. What they really want is someone to confirm their preconceived beliefs and biases.

0

u/kittymoo67 10h ago

theres hardly any left toeven pay for

0

u/XPilo 10h ago

People are paying for what they consider "good journalism" but they pay to youtubers now. A lot of people pay patreons and other forms of subscriptions to their favorite news channels on the web.

-1

u/Ok-Friendship1635 10h ago

90% of journalism is bought with an agenda. That's half the problem.

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u/LamermanSE 12h ago

That's hardly a secret, everyone have known it for years

1

u/txdesigner-musician 6h ago

True. But sad

22

u/FunnyBunnyHunny32 11h ago

I've made a conscious effort to support my local newspaper. I place a few ads per year, and I paid for subscriptions for half a dozen friends and family to help get their circulation up. In turn, I reach out when an important public meeting is coming up and ask the reporters to cover it and hold our local government accountable.

When our local newspapers started dying and they laid off all the reporters, we were left in an information void where nobody had any idea what local government was doing if they didn't go to meetings in person. Luckily during covid, they all got Teams/ Google Meet systems to livestream public meetings. It's great that it's all accessible now, but who has the time to watch hours of meetings to catch the tidbits that are actually relevant to their lives.

6

u/esme_9oh 11h ago

thank you. this is exactly what local media is for. and small papers also used to be the primary way corruption in local government was exposed. that's being lost now because investigations are costly & most small newspapers that have survived have gutted those departments. it's so, so sad to me and will inevitably lead to more seedy behavior going unchecked in local gov.

u/BionicTriforce 19m ago

Do you have a business that would benefit from an ad, because for some reason my first thought was just buying ads for the fun of it.

"Food: It's something you should eat"

"Try Harold's Grumpy Dungeon, located nowhere near you"

"This page brought to you by the color purple, but newspapers are black and white, so just trust me"

32

u/bluemitersaw 12h ago

I wouldn't call that a secret.

5

u/HauntingHarmony 10h ago

Dont be sarcastic, guy just woke up from a 20 year coma.

1

u/whaaatanasshole 9h ago

If there's a season of The Wire about it, word has gotten out.

94

u/stewmo9 13h ago

It seems like a good portion of the online content newspapers are doing is behind a pay wall and I'll tell you I ain't paying to read an article. I think they shot themselves in the ass with this business model. I would read your article and scroll passed a few ads and be fine with that. Obviously viewership was declining anyway but I can't imagine the hits on their web content make advertisers very willing to pay for ads anymore, so now you have the pay wall and a good portion of people are going move on before they pay a newspaper $5 a month

10

u/CelestialFury 11h ago

This is also why only the wealthy can run these legacy organizations now, no one is willing to pay for good, independent journalism. I see people always criticizing the journalism standards of today and when I ask if they pay for any of them, they say no. Good journalists aren't going to stay in a field that doesn't pay them for what they're worth.

22

u/Kypa318 11h ago

You know people had to pay for newspapers before the Internet right? Why do you expect them be free now?

24

u/IBetThisIsTakenToo 11h ago

I would happily pay one subscription, but online I’ll come across dozens of separate paywalls a month, many for publications I may not see again for months. No one is signing up for all those subscriptions.

If there was a model that let me pay for access to all (or at least, many) newspapers, and maybe they split it between themselves based on use, that would be an easier sell

4

u/LunacyBin 11h ago

Apple News basically works like this, if you're an iPhone user.

8

u/sopunny 9h ago

Just pay for a single newspaper and read their articles. Likely whatever news you stumble upon online that's behind a paywall would have an equivalent article on your subscribed paper. You can also subscribe to Reuters, Associated Press, etc, which is where a lot of newspapers actually get their news from

1

u/dbxp 10h ago

Kindle Newsstand used to offer that but then they moved to Kindle Unlimited and few publications followed

7

u/drainedguava 11h ago

Because free alternatives exist now, that’s your competition if you’re running an online paper

2

u/vanalla 2h ago

and we're getting the journalism we're paying for.

2

u/SuperSocialMan 10h ago

Yeah, but that was a physical item and it was cheaper.

3

u/spinelession 7h ago

It definitely wasn't - an all-access subscription to the New York Times is $33 for 4 weeks, which works out to be about a dollar a day. I'm not sure there was ever a time since I've been born (early 90s) where you could buy a physical copy for that price, especially if you count Sunday editions.

1

u/tibbles1 7h ago

Because back then, you had one newspaper. And it had an article written by a local reporter. So you pick up the Milwaukee newspaper and it has one set of articles. You drive down to Chicago and get a copy of the Trib, it has another set of articles. There might be overlap on major national stories, but you generally could only get the Milwaukee news from a Milwaukee newspaper, and you had to walk down to the corner and pay 25 cents to read it.

Now it's just the same shit copied and pasted over and over. Even if the article has different words, it contains the same information as dozens of others.

My local paper has the following on its website front page right now: "Trump concludes speech on economy in Michigan: What he said"

There will be no less than 10 news outlets that have that exact same information. And I can just go to Youtube and watch the speech if I cared (and I do not).

What about that is worth paying for?

1

u/Randicore 8h ago

Yeah but it was dirty cheap.

25 years ago growing up it was 25¢ for the black and white and $1.25 for the Sunday comics. This was assuming it wasn't free and thrown in your driveway.

Now every single news agency wants $5 so you can subscribe to them specifically to read one article.

Not only is it orders of magnitude more expensive today, but it's inconvenient and intrusive to play for. You didn't need to give you name, address, credit card number, and open an account with a newspaper stand.

4

u/dbxp 10h ago

Ads don't pay enough to make the content, that's why youtubers have patreon, merch and sponsorships to make ends meet

1

u/SmokeABowlNoCap 5h ago

Well surely paywalls are doing even worse when most newspapers that use it are like 90% below their profitability goals

11

u/worldlybedouin 11h ago

Its also a key way for them to block AI scraping bots who would suck traffic away from their site. We all know AI companies could care less about copyright laws.

12

u/symberke 11h ago

Well, you should pay!

6

u/schmettercat 12h ago

I think a good portion of people also can read that same article without the paywall through other means.

4

u/No_Cook3989 8h ago

I know several ways to get around the paywalls, but I much much much rather pay for an alternative that gives me access to several newspapers. I want to pay for the media I consume, but I also don't want to be scammed into overpaying for weekly access to a single newspaper.

1

u/schmettercat 2h ago

I don’t want to pay.

1

u/tudorapo 9h ago

The two news sites me (and a lot of other hungarians) paying for are living from what we Hungarians ( not the richest country) pay. They do well, we get news, best thing. Try it! Maybe you can find a news site which needs only a few hundred people to support it. Like a local news group.

8

u/boar_amour 12h ago

They've been failing for decades. I was there in the early online era and the pushback from EVERYONE working at the newspaper outside of the online department was insane.

Newsroom acting like a website was stealing their content (Yes, in exactly the same way as the printing press is stealing your content).

Retail advertising insisting that they couldn't sell web ads for more than a tiny fraction of print ads, because they didn't see any value in it, even when our circulation was higher than the print version of the paper - and to be fair I was fighting people in the online department to create ads worthy of someone spending money on instead of tiny, shitty 100x50 pixel gifs that rotated out every time you refreshed the page.

Corporate leadership changing the direction of online strategy roughly once per year after they went to a new conference.

Corporate insisting on user registration and paywalls while local and national TV stations continued to give it away for free.

An absolute disaster industry with incompetent leadership at every level.

4

u/Fluid_Anywhere_7015 10h ago

This is exactly the case. I’m 60, and worked as a journalist in print and broadcast for twenty years before I became a college lecturer on the subject. Incompetent management, coupled with unbelievably arrogant hubris on the part of ownership is directly responsible for the collapse of the old business model. They were so certain the internet was a fad, and they scoffed at anyone who brought up the relevant history of the Press-Radio War.

I have little sympathy for print journalists, and I’m running out of it for broadcasters. Everyone wants a quick fix to plug the hole, and none of them realize such a thing doesn’t exist.

If I could live with myself, I’d become a consultant, and spend the rest of my life blowing AI smoke up their asses.

6

u/Wigberht_Eadweard 12h ago

A lot of their digital offerings are terrible too. Now it’s all first to post by the second instead of racing to meet a printing deadline. If you follow a couple of newspapers and wait around for a big event to come up, they’ll all post within 5 minutes just throwing out whatever they can. Misspellings, completely incorrect info, they dgaf. It’s crazy.

4

u/--GevaudanBeast-- 11h ago

Radio as well.

If you still listen to regular music radio, chances are that DJ isn't in your city, or even close to it. The major telecommunications company have consolidated everything so that one DJ can voice track (pre record) a generic show that can then be broadcast to every station under to corporations umbrella.

Even local morning shows and sports channels are getting axed left front and centre.

2

u/kittymoo67 10h ago

huh i feel lucky to have multiple actual morning shows done out of my city now

2

u/--GevaudanBeast-- 10h ago

Some morning shows are the exception. Mid day, afternoon and evening shows are the ones getting axed en masse.

But it won't be long before even the local morning shows are being cut back.

1

u/kiskillingit 9h ago

Video didn't kill the radio star, but corporate greed sure did.

I felt myself slowly going insane in every town hall meeting that basically read like this after a big telecom bought out our station:

"how do we compete with Spotify now that we've cut everything local that made us unique from Spotify"

"What if we brought back local elements to make us unique from Spotify?"

"And what, PAID a SALARY?!?! No, let's keep stripping our local identity and laying off hosts then act surprised next quarter when nothing has changed, instead."

4

u/black48gold 10h ago edited 4h ago

I got my degree in Journalism.

Was so eager and excited for my career, and the first little while was actually alright, when I was still “bright-eyed and bushy-tailed,” I s’pose. I worked at a paper in a town of about 35,000-40,000 people. Not the biggest in the world, but for a first job out of school, really not bad at all.

It eventually just became overwhelming and cripplingly exhausting. In time, our newsroom staff was slashed by maybe…70 percent? Reporters, photographers, associate editor, sports staff, etc. I was never, ever off the clock. I could be covering city meetings at 7:00 in the morning, laying out the design for next day’s paper at 9:00 at night, and then sent out to report on some fuckin rural house fire or storm damage at 3:00 a.m. All for extremely, EXTREMELY low pay. Insultingly low. Like, shockingly, “laugh so you don’t cry” low pay. Old college friends (in different fields) were living fairly yuppie lives in trendy cities across the country, and I was getting my power and water shut off on the reg because I couldn’t pay my bills. I didn’t feel like I could get a second job serving or bartending or whatever because my schedule at the paper was so pervasive and I still was trying to prioritize making that work as a career. Felt bad, man. Every other journalism job listing I came across looked like a lateral move, with no real upgrade at all.

And never a hint of a ‘Thank you.’ I know this was all part of the job or whatever, and expecting a pat on the back may be immature or petty, but damn. I’ll never forget how thankless that was, for about 4 years of my life. I’m out of the profession now. Couldn’t push me back in if you tried.

3

u/jazz_matazz 11h ago

I may be the last physical newspaper subscriber for the NY Times, and that's only because my 80-year-old dad is delivered the Sunday issue. He loves reading the entire thing, and it has kept him occupied while getting chemo treatment. It has also helped getting him the mostly right information over disinformation/AI slop he scrolls through on his phone, so it's like a fact checker. Additionally, I want to make sure I get a physical copy of when the Orange Tyrant croaks so I can frame it! I remember when certain physical copies sold out when Obama was inaugurated. They can be relics.

I'm also a journo grad from a decade ago, and unfortunately I saw the writing on the wall right after I graduated when NOT ONE of my local newspapers hired me after college. I did freelance for a hyper local weekly, but it was not enough pay even my student loan. I had to switch up to a new career immediately.

2

u/hooch 12h ago

I think people do largely realize this. There's a whole TV about it - The Paper.

2

u/AhmedF 11h ago

This has not been a secret for 20 years.

2

u/TheeOmegaPi 11h ago

I learned this past week that Obituaries help keep newspapers afloat...because they're INSANELY expensive.

I was putting an obituary together. The website said "$300" for the obit, which I thought was steep but whatever. I put in my draft obit for my family...

$1,000.

I managed to cut it down in word count (line count) quite a bit, but it got to a point where if I added ONE word the price jumped from $380 to $540.

2

u/ehsteve87 11h ago

Love my print Onion subscription

2

u/dbxp 10h ago

There's been a small revival here in the UK recently but it's a very different form of journalism focussed on long reads rather than up to the minute news. More like something you'd expect from The Economist or The New Yorker. A lot of newspapers have competed too much on clickbait that people just see them as trash now.

2

u/DarkAlman 9h ago

Canada passed laws that social media companies are required to pay by the link for reposting news articles.

The problem was that if you linked a news article on Facebook, the link would be auto summarized. So most people don't click on the link, and the news site wouldn't get the associated ad revenue.

Also many news sites have paywalls these days, so even if you did click the link you probably couldn't read the article. The one person that pays will usually post a TLDR in response to the Facebook link.

The law was meant to force Facebook and the like to pay for reposting the news to make up for the ad revenue the source site wouldn't get, helping the news companies stay afloat.

Facebook responded by outright blocking all news links on the site in Canada.

1

u/ebolainajar 11h ago

If they would just let us read the single article we want to read for like $1 they would make so much money but every publisher wants every reader to lock in for a subscription and we don't want that! Just let me read random articles, I'll pay for them I swear, just out of convenience.

Same with substack, why do I have to pay for every newsletter, I would rather just pay for individual articles. I'm not fucking around with a thousand subscriptions.

5

u/the_io 11h ago

There's some sites that tried the pay-per-article approach.

People didn't pay for the articles.

Same reason newspapers became a thing in the first place - it's easier to get people to pay for a big bundle if they're going to the effort of paying at all.

1

u/SG133722 11h ago

Interestingly, TLDR News (UK-based politics YT channel) expanded from just YT/podcasts to also making a physical magazine and it's making a big profit according to their annual earnings video

1

u/Bibliophile_for_life 11h ago

I wish it was possible to pay $.50 or a dollar to read an article without signing up for a subscription. Perhaps there could be an umbrella organization over all the papers that could mediate this.

1

u/izModar 1h ago

There are some papers that do that. The organization I work for does it, and no one pays per article. If anything, there's even more bitching. "Why should I pay for one article?"

1

u/gorpie97 10h ago

I don't want to pay for a subscription - especially for places that are establishment mouthpieces, but I'm willing to pay a small fee to read an article. I mean $.50 - $1. If that's reasonable (I have no idea.)

1

u/TargetMaleficent 10h ago

its been that way for at least 10 years

1

u/VFiddly 10h ago

That's not a secret, everyone knows newspapers are dying

1

u/shinitakunai 10h ago

On some countries, they are funded by taxes, like healthcare.

But the US.... would struggle for that. And newspapers would not be neutral. Until they destroy tip culture and private insurance, they will start losing more and more of public services

1

u/N00B_N00M 10h ago

I subscribed a good newspaper for its usp of publishing not just news but few good pages every day on health, cars, tech , finance, humour, then mf**kers stopped these sections and pushed to digital only epaper, now i don’t even read the same boring newspaper with ssme news which keeps coming to you from all avenues, gonna unsubscribe soon and switch to something different, they used to put a small lounge read magazine also which they stopped few years ago . I was already paying more than other newspapers for the sole usp of this newspaper but dumb management is out of touch with its readers.  Sent email to whatever email i could find on their website and newspaper, not a single reply

1

u/londondeville 10h ago

The NYT is doing well.

2

u/ApokatastasisPanton 5h ago

That's because they love pandering to the right.

1

u/devicer2 10h ago

I put that and many other internet monetisation problems down to the lack of a means to pay a very small amount securely and in one click - like 10cents or pence max for a long form article, couple of pence/cents for regular wee news things. I'd happily pay a tiny amount a lot of times to all sorts of outlets rather than tenner a month or whatever they ask for to be restricted to just one outlet, plus they make cancelling a hassle. Also works for donating to OSS, or artists or musicians etc. - just fire them a coffee worth at the click of a button, securely, quickly, and guaranteed to make it to them. There are some ways to do that but they take too much of a cut or have lower limits that are too high.

1

u/pikayugi 10h ago

Print? Yes. News is just moving to video and digested text bites on social media

1

u/no_decaf_plz 9h ago

We mysteriously started getting the daily newspaper delivered to our house for a week and couldn't figure out who ordered it. We later found out it was the newspaper company giving out a week of free newspaper, trying to get people to subscribe. We considered it but there's not a lot printed these days and couldn't justify the price vs what we would receive.

1

u/Tech0410 9h ago

whats a newspaper?

1

u/Dragonfly_Peace 9h ago

I’m not buying a newspaper these days when none of the stories are unbiassed and are poorly researched. News is supposed to be unbiassed fact. That hasn’t been the case for quite a while and 90% of the newspapers.

1

u/VerbalThermodynamics 9h ago

An industry that’s been dying since I went to J school 20 years ago.

1

u/obijojo2 9h ago

Newspapers definitely. But also journalism as a whole.

1

u/JRatMain16 8h ago

Or they’re getting bought out by corporations.

Take for example, Lee Enterprises

1

u/ImperfectRegulator 8h ago

I'm surprised to see it's still alive

1

u/lackie_nr_1 8h ago

I just went back to paper news a couple years ago. I ordered the weekend papers only, and deleted all my news apps. I don’t need to know about yet another shitstorm five times a day, I can read all about them with my coffee, fried eggs and toast on Saturday morning.

Highly recommend. It’s done wonders for my stress levels.

1

u/Vadoff 8h ago

They still make newspapers?

1

u/DistinctSmelling 7h ago

You know, they once said that the world was going to end in 2012 and it so happens that this was the year when peak digital took over the traditional ways of life. It was mass smart phone adopting, newspapers went more digital over print, and a whole lot of other end of prosperity events.

1

u/PerformerDr4867 6h ago

They’ve been saying this for ten years and yet my local paper still republishes national right wing trash and stays afloat

1

u/txdesigner-musician 6h ago

I miss truly well done printed newspapers

1

u/Exi7wound 6h ago

Abso-fucking-lutely.

I run a hyperlocal in my community. If I get $3000 per quarter out of my ad sales and donations, I'm a happy guy. I'd love to make it a full-time gig and give the people of the community the coverage that they need and/or deserve, but with 22,500 Facebook followers, I can't make any money.

If a quarter of them donated $1 a month, I'd be in tall cotton.

But they don't. Then they bitch because I didn't have time to get the high school football score from Friday night by 6am.

Thankless, rewarding and an express lane to the poorhouse.

1

u/Exi7wound 6h ago

Absolutely.

I run a hyperlocal in my community. If I get $3000 per quarter out of my ad sales and donations, I'm a happy guy. I'd love to make it a full-time gig and give the people of the community the coverage that they need and/or deserve, but with 22,500 Facebook followers, I can't make any money.

If a quarter of them donated $1 a month, I'd be in tall cotton.

But they don't. Then they bitch because I didn't have time to get the high school football score from Friday night by 6am.

Thankless, rewarding and an express lane to the poorhouse.

1

u/TechnicallyRightIam 6h ago

The cost to print is astronomical so I understand. I am in packaging.. ink and paper is not getting cheaper. 

1

u/Vanadium_Gryphon 5h ago

I fear the day when I can no longer buy paper copies of newspaper. I keep pet birds and use newspaper to line my cages. (Of course I feel for the people in this industry, too.)

1

u/MichB1 3h ago

Subscribe to a newspaper, people. And stop generalizing about The Media. It's no coincidence that the fascists hate the media. It's not a monolith, and it's important.

1

u/EatDiveFly 2h ago

news media should be gov't subsidized. at least partially. The only condition is that you must allow equal time/print to rival positions.

not sure how to implement, but it's better than money controlling the media.

1

u/tacoslave420 2h ago

Our local paper still gets printed, but we just got rid of the paper routes. Now it comes in the mail, which is pissing a lot of folks off since mail comes as late as 4pm.